Jump to content

Screw Reproductions


RTB

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 61
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

 It doesn't matter what I paid for them. It's just a what their worth sort of thing.

 

I agree.  I was just saying, that personally, I'd be happy with $300 profit.  Especially after seeing a couple other sets on eBay that are in similar condition that have sold for $500.  Versus brand new in the box wheels for sale for $750 with $85 shipping.

 

 

:fu: Guess you don't care if fakes bring down the price of what you own. And brand new Panasports are over 1k. My price is 750. And your definition of used is wrong. Once they start rolling on a car they are used. :fu:

 

The problem isn't with the wheel manufacturers, it's with your buyer.  Anybody that knows Panasports, knows they are buying a superior built wheel.   I don't believe the other wheel manufactures are "bringing down the price of what you own".  There is a market for each manufacturer, and you just haven't found the right buyer. If I was in the market for Panasports, I'd lay down the $$ and buy yours. Sadly though, they aren't the look I'm going for on this car. 

 

And as far as your wheels being "new";  You can't prove that the previous owner didn't use them.  And I'm guessing you don't have the original boxes they came in.  Therefore, I think most people would agree, they are no longer "new".  I'd still probably advertise them for $750, but I also wouldn't be firm on my price.  This day and age, people are going to offer you less than what your asking, and personally, I would counter an offer and try to get $650 out of them.  That would seem fair to me, being the issue of whether or not they are "new".  But maybe that's just me.

Link to comment

I recall someone saying Panasports are mid-price ripoffs of real Watanabes. That minilites weren't first. And didn't make 13" or larger.

 

That person was wrong.   :rofl:

 

Miinilite came out with their design around 1960, well before anyone else. But the "banana" 8-spoke wheel is the most plagiarized design in the business. 

 

And FYI, Minilite makes them in anything from 10x4 all the way up to 15x10. 

Link to comment

datsunfreak is 100% right on old wheels.

 

I have 30+ year old Libres and Revolutions that I could be using on my 510 vintage racecar project, but I won't. The current metallurgy and casting technology used to make wheels (even those Chinese VTO wheels) is leaps and bounds over what was used in making the original Libres.

 

That and if you add to it that aluminum work hardens, old wheels can be dangerous. I had a fellow Datsun racer crash on track in front of me because the wheel center broke out on his decades old Mini-light. He went into the outside concrete wall at somewhere short of 100MPH with absolutely no control or braking to slow him down. He came out of it without injury but the car took some serious work to rebuild.

 

I'd take a VTO Retro 4 any day over an old Libre.

 

Oh and by the way VTO wheels are both JWL and DOT certified for road use. Just because its made in China doesn't automatically mean its junk.

 

The same used to be said about Japanese stuff and look at how hard you are now defending a Japanese wheel. Things change.

I re-read this and want to bring this back from the dead to call bullshit (kinda). Plenty of cast wheels fail, new and old. I can bring you dozens of pictures of rotas and other wheels that have been destroyed. So it is kind of disingenuous to blame a wheel failure in a racing situation of the age of the wheel when there are plenty of examples of modern wheels doing the exact same thing. If you want a real quality wheel that you can push as hard as you want then you buy forged, not cast. And I will defend Japanese metallurgy over chinese metallurgy any day of the week. We are fans of Datsun. Look at the incredible engineering our cars had for their time. Fully independent suspension. Super beefy blocks and great head design. The Japanese culture in general has always been detail oriented and that is why they now make some of the best cars on the road today. You couldn't pay me to drive on DOT approved chinese tires. Whereas Bridgestone, Toyo, and Yokohama are all excellent tires.
Link to comment

You think 'fake' wheels are going to explode under regular driving conditions? Get real. However, if you smack a curb getting sideways being a dumbass and your rim shatters, then you have it coming. Your 'cheap' cast wheel isn't going to disintegrate going down the interstate, driving like a normal human being.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

You think 'fake' wheels are going to explode under regular driving conditions? Get real. However, if you smack a curb getting sideways being a dumbass and your rim shatters, then you have it coming. Your 'cheap' cast wheel isn't going to disintegrate going down the interstate, driving like a normal human being.

Im not trying to say anything fails without reason. I was just saying that it is a little disingenuous to say that an old wheel broke under racing conditions when new wheels (even quality brand) fail under racing conditions as well. I also think its a bit ridiculous to just say the wheel broke and the person crashed near 100mph without any details at to the conditions and circumstances. I just want people to take what Dime Dave says with a grain of salt because he has a personal interest in selling reproductions.
Link to comment

Im not trying to say anything fails without reason. I was just saying that it is a little disingenuous to say that an old wheel broke under racing conditions when new wheels (even quality brand) fail under racing conditions as well. I also think its a bit ridiculous to just say the wheel broke and the person crashed near 100mph without any details at to the conditions and circumstances. I just want people to take what Dime Dave says with a grain of salt because he has a personal interest in selling reproductions.

 

totally off topic but i cant stop watching your sig and i keep laughing

Link to comment

Im not trying to say anything fails without reason. I was just saying that it is a little disingenuous to say that an old wheel broke under racing conditions when new wheels (even quality brand) fail under racing conditions as well. I also think its a bit ridiculous to just say the wheel broke and the person crashed near 100mph without any details at to the conditions and circumstances. I just want people to take what Dime Dave says with a grain of salt because he has a personal interest in selling reproductions.

 

First I was not saying every new wheel would be better than an old wheel (although the likelihood is there). What I did say is I would race on new VTO Retro 4 before I'd go on track on a 30 year old Libre or Revolution. Never said anything about ROTA or any other wheel you may have issues with. So I guess its my turn to call bullshit (kinda).

 

You want details, here are the details. The car was a full on race prep '74 710 with an L20b engine and 13" race slicks (real slicks not the DOT stuff). It has been a race car all its life. It came off the dealer floor and went straight to the track. The guy that owns/preps the car runs a high end European car shop. He also owns/races a pro/am F2000 open wheel car. I've known him for years and he knows what he is doing when it comes to car prep and racing.

 

The wheel was an original Minilite, no cheap ass fake wheel, but one made by a revered wheel manufacturer. It was by all appearances in race worthy condition, but age and fatigue degraded it to the point where the center pulled out and the car slammed into the wall.  It was in mid turn, no contact with another car or abuse from hitting curbs. Basically the wheel timed out and broke with no prior signs of trouble.

 

As for my comments about racing on VTO wheels, yes I sell them but I also believe in them. Let me say this about their quality. The manufacturer of the VTO wheels makes wheels for MANY other vendors including manufacturer OE equipment wheels. They make wheels used on the SCCA Spec Racer Ford (SRF) racecars using the same manufacturing techniques as used in the VTO wheels. If you know anything about SRF's they get abused. There are a number of them in racecar "rental fleets" and these cars are driven like they were stolen, crashing over curbs and occasionally into other cars. The wheels are solid and unless severely wrecked do not crack or shatter, they bend.

 

Real life situation, Adam Corolla's Vintage BRE Roadster races on VTO Lemans wheels. He jumped the backside of a curb hard one day and BENT a VTO wheel. It didn't crack or shatter like your cheap ass "Chinese" fake would have, it bent just like a Panasport would. The tire stayed up and he drove back on track and to the pits with a severe vibration.

 

So before you go putting down products just because of where they are made you should look into what they are. You could be surprised to find that a "Chinese fake" is actually a decent quality wheel.

  • Like 6
Link to comment

Whatever! I am fine with a "fake" reproduction wheel. I am looking at getting a set for my truck right now. They are a copy of the Volk/Rays at a fraction of the cost. Fuck paying over $500 PER WHEEL! Not when I can get the "fake knockoff" Level 8 for $160 per wheel. The only VISIBLE difference is the name. Besides, I am on a limited budget and this is not a professional race car.

 

Volk:

 

16-inch-sport-rim-te37-matt-bronze-stark

 

Level 8:

 

Level8MK6MBR_002_zps4f94fbc4.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment

I would definitely run the cast cheap wheel!  But at $160/wheel, I'm STILL too cheap to spend that kind of dough.  I like wheels right in the $100-$200 range, for a set of four.  That's why I frequently shop the wrecking yards for old wheels that haven't been abused too hard. ;)

  • Like 1
Link to comment

 

 

And FYI, Minilite makes them in anything from 10x4 all the way up to 15x10. 

 

I custom-ordered the Minilites for my Sunny.  They were the only manufacturer (that I could find) that builds per customer spec.  They delivered in about 5-6 weeks and were about $1100 to my door.   The factory was a bit concerned about the width and offset I wanted, but they went ahead and built them, anyway. (They fit perfectly)

 

The US Distributor still has a pic of my car on his website.

 

I thought the Panasports for sale were at a fair price, but the shipping costs ruled them out for me.

Link to comment

There is a huge difference in the wheels you pictured. Iirc those rays are forged while the fake is obviously cast.

 

WHO CARES? My point is Mr. Wheel Snob is that they both look identical. What makes the Volk worth the price to you? Because I am not seeing it? I can buy FOUR wheels for a little more than ONE wheel? So one is forged and the other is cast? Both are DOT compliant. Both have to pass rigorous testing. And both are made with low cost labor in Asia. Even for forged that is STILL too much... I can get Centerline forged BILLET Aluminum AMERICAN MADE wheels in 17" for around $300 per wheel.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

If they look identical... you are blind. I for one like the lip on the Volks more. Plus I respect Volk (Rays) enough to not go buy a crappy imitation of their product. Oh and I guarantee you the Volks are WAY lighter in weight than any knockoff. Have fun with increased unsprung weight and rotating mass.

 

Course then again, I have seen your old Sport-Trac...

  • Like 1
Link to comment

WHO CARES? My point is Mr. Wheel Snob is that they both look identical. What makes the Volk worth the price to you? Because I am not seeing it? I can buy FOUR wheels for a little more than ONE wheel? So one is forged and the other is cast? Both are DOT compliant. Both have to pass rigorous testing. And both are made with low cost labor in Asia. Even for forged that is STILL too much... I can get Centerline forged BILLET Aluminum AMERICAN MADE wheels in 17" for around $300 per wheel.

Japanese labor is not the same as chinese, Philippines, Thai, etc.
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.