Buy built? or buy and have built?

[fisch]

Just for the sake of discussion, here is a hypothetical question on buying a new engine.

 

What is cheaper or at least more logical in the long run for a guy with few skills and little time. (Yeah I know it is best to do it yourself and learn, but I am no machine shop!)

 

Option #1- Starting price $1600+shipping to purchase a built ebay l20b motor ready to drop in? (Assuming the right oil pan is on there.)

 

Option #2- $200-$300 starting price for a mystery dirty scrap yard l20b and paying to have it built to the ebay level? (more that likely by a non datsun expert)

 

Assuming neither come w/ accessories like starters and manifolds and alt.

 

Here is what the ebay l20 motors have going on:

 

PROFESSIONALLY REBUILT U67 HEAD FOR AND L20B SERIES DATSUN.

 

GREAT FLOWING HEAD AND GOOD COMPRESSION. THIS ENGINE HAS NEVER BEEN INSTALLED ON A CAR SINCE IT WAS REBUILT.

 

REBUILD PROCESS INCLUDES...Core has been weld repaired due to some corrosion around the water jackets, but looks and works fine now.

 

1. Complete disassemble, Inspection and Pressure test

2. Re-Surface all 3 sides, Intake Gasket Side, Head Gasket Side and Valve Cover Gasket Side

3. 3 Angle Valve Job

4. Reconditioned Rocker Arms

5. Cleaned, and Installed OEM stock Springs, Retainers and Lash Pads

6. Full Set of new Valve Seals

7. NEW Camshaft.

8. All threads cleaned and repaired as needed

9. Full Reassembly and Valve adjustment

 

 

HEAD INCLUDES: PERFORMANCE 490/290 POLISHED CAM AND MATCHING PARTS. IT ALSO HAVE THE RARE 1MM COMP HEAD GASKET, RESURFACED ROCKER ARMS. CORRECT THICK LASH PADS . COMPLETE HOT TANK CLEANING, HEAD GETS PRESSURE TESTED AND 3 ANGLE VALVE JOB. LEVEL SURFACED BUT NOT "SHAVED" TO CHANGE COMPRESSION. ONLY .005 OF MATERIAL REMOVED, THEN FINAL VALVE ADJUSTMENT. NEW HARDEN SEATS, NEW VALVE STEMS AND GUIDES ARE REPLACED IF NEEDED, THREADS ARE CLEAR AND CLEAN TOO.

 

THE BLOCK IS A L20b WITH NEW PISTONS, SEALS, FELPRO GASKETS AND NEW BEARINGS. IT WAS COMPLETELY BALANCED TOO. ENGINE INCLUDES OIL PAN & VALVE COVER, TIMING COVER, NEW WATER PUMP AND NEW OIL PUMP.

 

THE HEAD WAS CLEANED, RESURFACED AND THEN CHECKED AND PASSED. THE HEAD AND BLOCK ARE PERFECT NOW. ALL VALVES ARE IN EXCELLENT SHAPE.

[bonvo]

a buddy of mine was looking at the same motor for the price and the work done your basicly gettiing a brand new motor doesnt seem like a bad deal to me save you alot of work to

[Bugeye]

I think Pac bought an engine from that guy

[hang_510]

^and 'professional' doesnt fit either.

"core repaired" is what youd likely need to do to a dirty JY block.

no garauntees either...

i havent heard much negatives about his motors, but for $1600 you could get a KA, almost installed.

i try not to calculate what ive spent :mellow:

 

 

id say that time is going to be more important. i spent less on machining, but made up for it w/new(no refurbished) parts. nothing reused like springs/rocker arms/lash caps/valves (~$350 new)

 

i went the DIY route and its taken way too long, sometimes friends arent :cursing:

but i know what im gonna have when its completed :D

[OL YELLER]

I think Pac bought an engine from that guy

 

So Have I.........matter of fact I believe that he (his name is Alan) has sold a number of engines and I don't recall hearing anything negative about his stuff...(Datrod? anything to add here John?)

[datsunfish]

Heres a motor on ebay.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DATSUN-510-BLUEBIRD-L16-race-motor-6-bolt-crank-balance_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34202QQihZ002QQitemZ120300170590QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

That would be cool.

[Bamadawg]

6 bills for that stroker motor isn't a bad deal at all. If it is from the '70s - I bet it was done with quality stuff and by people that really knew how to make cars go fast - if that's what you want is a high revver. Jus gotta remember that it will def need 93 Oct or higher to run daily. Would also need all the other go-fast parts to get the most out of it... high spark, intake/carb set-up, header/exhaust, correct tranny/diff set-up.

 

He has all the other stuff to make a killer track car - bet its all quality stuff too - if you got the pocketbook for it.

 

If it were me wanting a fresh longblock... I would get a used longblock from the scrap and have the bottom end done locally at a machine shop and send the head off to a known Dat performance shop for a redo, then have it mated to the bottom end. I bet if you look/ask around - you could find someone that knows Dat motors - esp if you have dirt tracks around that run mini-cars. If its anything like around here, you can find a part time builder/shade tree type guy that has tons of experience with foreign motors. Jus a suggestion.

 

Nate

[fisch]

^ Ebay Description: Cleaning out many very old race parts from sea container , some were on race car run in 70s that was a Tilton built car ,then stored years run on my car for awhile 10+ years ago .Had race head and BRE manifold when I originally picked up, NISSAN COMP .Crank fully balanced ,Rare 6 bolt L16. possibly is a stroker (cheater)looks like 86.5mm bore med high dome race pistons(check out alu. flywheel many holes) ,was running 10 yrs ago last , was very high reving saw 8k on tach had no problems just changed to L20 ,needs to go back on track, Sorry for the dirt on this bottom end has been stored dry, no rust and cyl. look good still ,poss re-ring and run it.

 

Neat engine! What does 'rare 6- bolt' mean? Other than the obvious 6-bolts? I don't know enough to know why that is rare.

 

With all the extra go fast goodies you'd need, I wonder what the total investment would be?

 

Pretty cool that it is an l16 though!

 

Again this was all for the sake of discussion. But when I decide to do a swap, I wouldn't really need a screaming demon. I'd be doing it to a 521 and they don't exactly handle like a 510! But if you're going to put a new motor in, nothing wrong w/ a few more ponies! But too much and the brakes have to be upgraded to the challenge (especially on a 521), which would require a possible disc swap. Suddenly dollar signs going up! (Even though the brackets our ratsun bros sell make it pretty affordable.) But it all adds up!

[banzai510(hainz)]

fisch

if your truck runs fine dont worry about it!!!!!

[fisch]

Oh I will run it as long as I can with that l-16 in there Hainz! But the main oil seal is leaking to the point where under heavy load the clutch is slipping. And you know how many skillz I have.:(

 

So if I don't do the work myself (lack of time and skills), and if I have to have the motor pulled anyway to replace the main seal, and resurface or replace the clutch. (Not to mention while the motor is open it'd be silly not to have it rebuilt.) at what point could I have just dropped in a nicely built l20 w/ a better head?

 

Heck I don't even own a engine hoist or stand, and I have no friends in the area who know how to work on cars. Were all a bunch of freakin artists! I am the most mechanical of us, how scary is that!

 

So anyway that is why I am pondering...

 

But believe me I won't do it till I have to!

[racerx]

L20B for $1,600 too much money, bought one on Ebay rebuilt, though L18 for $800, including shipping, tax and with guarantee. That L20b does it include shipping..if you are going to spend that much get a KA or SR motor and let a shop swap it for you....we can only do so much with L series engine and will spend tons ofmoney to get it to KA or Sr HP specs. But then again some like L20B series so as to keep it stock looking.

 

here check this out:

 

 

http://dimequarterly.com/

 

Look at the left side and click the ENGINE button.

[fisch]

Thanks for the info Racerx! Interesting reading at DQ indeed. I guess my inexperience makes me nervous about putting something in there that doesn't just drop right in. I have heard of a few KA 521's and read about Ice's 620 w/ the KA, but don't know on a 521 how many things need to be moved for clearence to fit a KA.

 

If it is just a matter of paying to have motor mounts welded in, that is one thing. But trans cross members, shortened drivelines, upgraded brakes to stop it, starts to sound expensive!

 

The thought of how easy it is to drop in an l18 or l20 sounds more realistic.

 

If I had some local ratsun folks who knew what they were doing, I would be psyched about the challenge, and embrace the chance to learn. Alas...

 

As to the sr install, I've read the threads about the 2 521's w/ SR's, (and the VG 521), which are BADASS, but seem to need alot of modification to get them in there. And as I recall I am not sure if either of the SR 521's were ever put back on the road. And that is by people who know a lot more than me!

[hang_510]

What does 'rare 6- bolt' mean? Other than the obvious 6-bolts? I don't know enough to know why that is rare.

a stock L16 (or L18) has a 5 bolt crank/flywheel.

 

 

i know the seller if you are intrested.

he makes quality SS brake lines too.

[banzai510(hainz)]

there were RACE 6 bolt cranks on L16/18s ,very rare

[racerx]

Thanks for the info Racerx! Interesting reading at DQ indeed. I guess my inexperience makes me nervous about putting something in there that doesn't just drop right in. I have heard of a few KA 521's and read about Ice's 620 w/ the KA, but don't know on a 521 how many things need to be moved for clearence to fit a KA.

 

If it is just a matter of paying to have motor mounts welded in, that is one thing. But trans cross members, shortened drivelines, upgraded brakes to stop it, starts to sound expensive!

 

The thought of how easy it is to drop in an l18 or l20 sounds more realistic.

 

If I had some local ratsun folks who knew what they were doing, I would be psyched about the challenge, and embrace the chance to learn. Alas...

 

As to the sr install, I've read the threads about the 2 521's w/ SR's, (and the VG 521), which are BADASS, but seem to need alot of modification to get them in there. And as I recall I am not sure if either of the SR 521's were ever put back on the road. And that is by people who know a lot more than me!

 

This is what it boils down to..1) how much money you got 2). how bad do you need to get this car running( is this your sole transportation 3). how are your skills (fabrication and mechanical) 4). do you the resources (i.e tools, garage, time) 5) what are your long term goals for this car..daily driver, trailer queen, show boat, 1/4 miler, track 5). drifting..get it.

 

You don't "stay the course" unless you truly know which way you going...I've known people who have spent like $20K on their rides and 6 mos. later try to sell it and are ucky to get back 70% of what they put in. We all have big dreams for our cars, seeing pictures and magazines, but be wise about it...what do they say "measure 3X and cut once than cut 3X and measure once". Be honest with your evaluation and don't let ego or emotions get in the way of making your decision. When money and time is the issue then ask a lot of questions...remember the 5 Ps, PROPER PLANNING PREVENTS POOR PERFORMANCE!

[fisch]

I couldn't agree more Racerx!

 

For me I'd be happy with a truck that gets driven a couple times a week, I'd put it up in the winter cause NEw england winters will eat it for breakfast. But no show queens here!

 

I don't need much. If the l-16 I have wasn't having issues, I'd be perfectly fine with it as is. And I will run it the way it is until it simply can't. But projecting ahead,when it is time to yank the motor for an overhaul, I like to think about all the options. The most realistic of which includes dropping something in there with a tad more oomph that doesn't require a TON of modification or pre building. Thus this thread!

 

In the end I like them ratty but reliable!

[racerx]

Forgo to ask how is the condition of the body..no sense of putting a new engine if body is rustd out. Having lived in Maine for like 2 years, I am very familiar with how salt and snow can eat up our cars, specially one that is 35 years old.

 

Maybe all you need to do is rebuild the head, sometimes people do this cuz bottom part is okay. The only thing with buying an engine that's used and have been "rebuilt" is that there are no warranties, except if you buy one that is rebuilt from some engine company.

 

Try fliteline engines, this is where I bought my L18 for like $800, including shipping, tax -

[fisch]

Actually my truck in in excellent shape! The only rust through on the whole thing was on the tailgate, and a couple tiny holes on the rocker. Heh the guy at the inspection station was shocked how solid it looked for being in new england.

 

It actually spent almost all of its life in texas. And though it sat for 10 years before I got it, it was garaged.

 

If you have never seen it you should look at my project thread!

http://forum.ratsun.net/showthread.php?t=3648

 

I am sure the head could use a rebuild, however as I mentioned above, it the leaking main seal and slipping clutch that are making me think about yanking the engine. And if it has to come out for that, i can't help but think about what else I could put in its place.

 

Though if I could rent an engine hoist, and find an engine stand (be kinda expensive to rent one for as long as it would take me). With the help of the hainz video, I might be able to rebuild it myself. But it'd still be an l16.

 

And the point of this thread was to explore the option of buying built, or having built, to save time, give me a few more ponies, and know it wasn't an amature (aka me) putting it together.

 

But another thought would be to buy one built, rent a hoist and put it in myself. Not having to break it open and rebuild (w/ no skills) would save alot of stress. But I think I could hook it back up ok.

[motavated]

What I did is I went to the yard got a block and bought warranty for it. Luckily the block was good when it was rebuilt. But if any problem occurred then I would of just returned it back with no questions asked. No matter what. It would cost around the same. But I don't like the shipping cost for an engine. It might be a little cheaper if you take it in yourself.

[dat521gatherer]

wow! i just swapped my l16 for another l16 a few months ago. some of these ratsun people must think i'm a jackass.:eek: sr's ka's hell fisch you might as well just put a rocket under the thing.:D

[fisch]

HEhe! I wasn't thinking SR heck no! And remember this started as an l20 thread not even a KA! I am not that ambitous. But nothing wrong w/ talking about a KA for a second. Though as I've mentioned, computers, rewiring, FI. These things make me nervous. I guess if you knew what you are doing they could be as easy to work on as a l motor, but it all looks like rocket science to me! After all I am just starting to understand what makes an l-motor tick!

 

But one of the great things about you dat521 is that you want to keep it as original as possible. And even more so you want to find all the awesome rare parts. I think that is great! I would have been shocked if you had put anything but an l16 back in there.

[racerx]

Your truck looks clean, I say keep it and keep on thinking about which engine. I've seen this guy sell L20s on ebay but I don't think that includes shipping and he might even asked for a core..get all of the details..if you have never put an engine in, you will need two people. I just installed an L18 into my 510 and it's easier when someone helps you who knows more than you. Also have all of your tools, make a list of what you will need like a clutch alignment tool, floor jacks, jack stand, engine stand, coolant, hoses, belt, new spark plugs, wires...Again just make a list.

 

But first decide what you want to do: 1) Buy one and install yourself 2). Buy a KA or SR and have someone do it for you 3) have your current engine rebuilt and install your self or have shop...

 

All I am saying is decide the pros and cons of each decision.

[slodat]

You may want to check out this engine. Looks like a decent deal. http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pts/828733688.html

[makya]

...or you could go the easy route and buy one from checker/ schucks/ kragen for $1300 w/ a warranty and not pay shipping

[fisch]

Saddly the nearest schucks checker or Kragen is 3 states away! Gotta love the NE baby! But when the time comes I guess I could try Autozone or Advanced auto. I never thought a modern retail chain would carry an L motor! Cool!

 

That l-18 sss is pretty rad slodat! Ahhh the joys of west coast living!