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Blown RL411 engine

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Another small update. The motor is done at Rebello and back at Z Car Garage. It's taken months, but nice to know about some progress. Hopefully won't be too much longer to get the motor back in, make sure the brakes work, and other basics to get it driving safely.

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Another small update. The motor is done at Rebello and back at Z Car Garage. It's taken months, but nice to know about some progress. Hopefully won't be too much longer to get the motor back in, make sure the brakes work, and other basics to get it driving safely.

 

Months? Heck, this thread started in Sept 2013!!!! :w00t: 

 

It'll be interesting to hear what work Rebello did and what it cost. I've heard nothing but good things about them, however, the words "cheap" and "inexpensive" were not mentioned.

 

The thread also never states if this is an SAE 3-main motor or Metric 5-main motor. As a '67, could be either. Hopefully, the later as the many of the parts, especially the main bearings, are readily available at lower cost than the 3-main stuff. What is the engine number? That should tell us.

 

FWIW, I pulled the 3-main on my '67 roadster to replace the clutch, replace the head gasket, do some general clean-up, and reinstall......yeah....right..... Full on rebuild pushing $2000. That's one reason I'm considering a KA for my 411 wagon.

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Months? Heck, this thread started in Sept 2013!!!! :w00t:

 

Crazy. Isn't it? I have a rather strange situation where I knew this would take a long time—and that's totally OK with me. I just want to have it done right and by the right people. Doing it that way takes a ton of time and also money. I've needed the patience of a saint with this project, though.

 

In the mean time, I've totally built up my other car, a '93 300ZX N/A Slicktop: http://www.zcarblog.com/2014/12/24/performance/more-slicktop-love-kevins-300zx.html

 

I may have had better progress working on the project on my own, but I live in San Francisco and only have access to a carport. No way to leave a project lying about, unfortunately.

 

 

It'll be interesting to hear what work Rebello did and what it cost. I've heard nothing but good things about them, however, the words "cheap" and "inexpensive" were not mentioned.

 

I'm not sure what the final cost of the rebuild was. I haven't seen the final work order yet. I didn't spare any expenses in getting the motor rebuilt correctly and with performance in mind.

 

 

The thread also never states if this is an SAE 3-main motor or Metric 5-main motor. As a '67, could be either. Hopefully, the later as the many of the parts, especially the main bearings, are readily available at lower cost than the 3-main stuff. What is the engine number? That should tell us.

 

You know, I'm not really sure. Is the engine number the same number as the VIN? I can check the pink slip when I get home.

 

 

FWIW, I pulled the 3-main on my '67 roadster to replace the clutch, replace the head gasket, do some general clean-up, and reinstall......yeah....right..... Full on rebuild pushing $2000. That's one reason I'm considering a KA for my 411 wagon.

 

You're a lot smarter than I am. For sure.

 

I'll see if I can pin down a date for the reinstallation of the engine ASAP.

 

Thanks!

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You know, I'm not really sure. Is the engine number the same number as the VIN? I can check the pink slip when I get home.

 

No, the VIN and engine number are different. The engine number won't be on the pink slip/title, but will be on the block (front right side) and a separate entry on the VIN plate, which should be attached to the left (driver side) fender inside the engine compartment.

 

datsun%20nissan%20plate.jpg

 

If the engine isn't the original, then the engine number on the VIN plate won't match. You can always call Rebello to get the actual engine number.

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Another small update. The motor is done at Rebello and back at Z Car Garage. It's taken months, but nice to know about some progress. Hopefully won't be too much longer to get the motor back in, make sure the brakes work, and other basics to get it driving safely.

 

A year later after I saw the motor. Looks like some signs of life on the 411 project, though. Carbs going to Z Therapy. Test fit for tires and wheels. More info to come.

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No, the VIN and engine number are different. The engine number won't be on the pink slip/title, but will be on the block (front right side) and a separate entry on the VIN plate, which should be attached to the left (driver side) fender inside the engine compartment.

 

datsun%20nissan%20plate.jpg

 

If the engine isn't the original, then the engine number on the VIN plate won't match. You can always call Rebello to get the actual engine number.

 

I bought my RL411 from the self proclaimed number two factory authorized DATSUN dealer in the North American market. Grey market East Coast and Hawaii dealers not counted! Staley Motors, Great Falls Montana. He wanted to sell the RL411 especially with the British Borg Warner automatic transmissions for the wifey, but could not get specifics from Yokohama on just what modifications they were going to make to R type roadster 1600 engine to make it fit into the much shorter [vs the roadster] engine bay, so as a precaution he ordered 6 sedans and a spare engine!  This may be part of the explanation as to why the actual engine number does not always match the fender plate.  In order to make the customer happy and not take forever to service a warranty case, swap with the spare, make the customer happy, sell him/her another vehicle, repair the original engine without a time crunch and put it in the spare engine locker.  One happy customer and a carefully restored engine in stock.

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Looks like engine is going in today at ZCG. Finally. :thumbup:

 

I was going to get a water pump over there prior to the installation, but the one that was on eBay got snapped up. I think it was the correct one but wasn't sure (old listing here). Radiator is going out for recore. Think he's got a clutch ready to go. Anything else I'm forgetting? Was running and driving prior to the engine rebuild.

 

This RL411 is sure to see some pavement soon!!

 

DD

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You have forgotten to post any pictures at all,,,,  in this whole thread..

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Looks like engine is going in today at ZCG. Finally. :thumbup:

 

I was going to get a water pump over there prior to the installation, but the one that was on eBay got snapped up. I think it was the correct one but wasn't sure (old listing here). Radiator is going out for recore. Think he's got a clutch ready to go. Anything else I'm forgetting? Was running and driving prior to the engine rebuild.

 

This RL411 is sure to see some pavement soon!!

 

DD

 

You can modify a Roadster 1600 water pump to retrofit an RL411.  The Roadster pump is about one inch too long in ther shaft and fan spinner and thus the alternator and lower crankshaft alignment.  So!  Pull the spinner from your RL411 water pump and press fit it to the shaft of the roadster water pump after pulling the roadster spinner!  This will leave an inch ot the rotor shsft protruding.  Options are to cut the shaft and put a slight bevel on the resulting edge to allow further assembly of the RL411 bell shaped spinner' or to pray that you have good rubber engine mounts.  I replaced my original rubber engine mounts when I did this swap many years ago and have had no problems!  The clearance between the end of the roadster shaft and the radiator core looks scary, but with good engine mounts to control the engine movement you should have no further problems.  A riskier option is to use a Ford Falcon upper pulley with appropriate spacer to align with the fan belt and a aluminum flex fan.  This will look scary given the radiator clearance and will require constant visual inspection to detect incipient stress fractures in the aluminum fan blades.

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You have forgotten to post any pictures at all,,,,  in this whole thread..

 

 

Whoops! Here you go....

The main photos I have is when raceneely trailered it up to me. The last one is recent, being test fitted for tires and wheels.

 

411_trailer.jpg.1379292865892.jpg

411_previous%20owner.jpg.1379292781945.j

411-rear_no-plate.jpg?height=300&width=4

image.jpg.1379553798712.jpg?height=300&w

411_Tom.jpg.1379292927237.jpg

RL411_tow.png.1379296738321.png?attachau

411_in-dark.png?attachauth=ANoY7cqb7kywL

411_dark-side.png

Pana_411.png

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The R16 awaits...

 

R16%20on%20stand.png

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You can use the later roadster fuel pump, but you will have to use studs and nuts rather than the standard RL411 bolts.  The roadster fuel pump has a thicker flange but will fit and work as intended after this slight modification.  The distance from the pump "lever" to the engine cam is perfect.  BTW, are you intending to fit a remote oil filter?  There's no filter boss on your engine.

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The "4" engine prefix signifies to me [at least] that you have a late model metric engine, so be careful of all bolted on accesories!

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See my many postings on how to modify the 1600 roadster water pump to align with and function properly in an RL411 sedan.  You will need a gear puller and a good hydraulic press.  A good ruler would not hurt.  The back distance from the RL411 pump "spinner" to the rear of the water pump flat is semi critical to proper alignment to the crankshaft and alternator pulleys.  A Dodge or Plymouth thermostat gasket is the one you want to use, all others are too narrow to properly seal against the thermostat. A KIA Sephia thermostat housing is the closest to the original that I have found.  You will have to ream the KIA's metric bolt holes unless your engine block has compatible metric bolt threads.  Not a big deal if you have to ream the KIA housing, it even looks like the DATSUN original, but a bit shallower.

 

Good Luck!

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See my many postings on how to modify the 1600 roadster water pump to align with and function properly in an RL411 sedan.

 

Thanks so much! We're going to have to go with this mod. I'm curious though, does anyone have the actual parts number for this rare bird of a water pump? I can't seem to find that info anywhere online. I believe mine is the later metric R16.

 

DD

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By 1982 the real RL411 waterpump was NLA at the dealer parts counter.  Whatever was in stock was all that existed.  Was never reordered or put into production at aftermarket sites, not enough existing RL / WRL 411 to make it worth the time and effort!

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  • Exhaust manifold being zinc plated

Bridgestone tires and Panasport wheels have been ordered

Front and rear seats being reupholstered

JC Whitney carpet kit on order 

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Somewhere I have a NLA response to one of my attempts to order a replacement RL411 water pump with the part number, but can't find it.  As a consolation prize the pump rebuild kit P/N is 21026-62225 and the fan hub P/N is21054-04000.

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Somewhere I have a NLA response to one of my attempts to order a replacement RL411 water pump with the part number, but can't find it.  As a consolation prize the pump rebuild kit P/N is 21026-62225 and the fan hub P/N is21054-04000.

 

Found the RL411 waterpump part numbers!

 

Original up to engine serial number R-26018 is 21010-15800. Distinguishing mark, screws holding rear cover on are 1/4 inch.

 

Replacement and OE on later engines from R-26019 to the R-4xxxx series is 21010-15801.  Distinguishing mark, screws holding rear cover on are 6mm.

 

Bonus!  Alternate hub partnumber is 21054-14600.

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I have a set of Star wheels that were on this car before you purchased it ... Engine is looking sweet!!!!

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Found the RL411 waterpump part numbers!

 

Original up to engine serial number R-26018 is 21010-15800. Distinguishing mark, screws holding rear cover on are 1/4 inch.

 

Replacement and OE on later engines from R-26019 to the R-4xxxx series is 21010-15801.  Distinguishing mark, screws holding rear cover on are 6mm.

 

Bonus!  Alternate hub partnumber is 21054-14600.

 

And I forgot to mention, on the late part the bolt holes for the fan are also 6mm vs. 1/4 inch on the early unit.  Chek the fan hub for metric or SAE and you have the variety nailed down.

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I have a set of Star wheels that were on this car before you purchased it ... Engine is looking sweet!!!!

 

Found the RL411 waterpump part numbers!

 

Original up to engine serial number R-26018 is 21010-15800. Distinguishing mark, screws holding rear cover on are 1/4 inch.

 

Replacement and OE on later engines from R-26019 to the R-4xxxx series is 21010-15801.  Distinguishing mark, screws holding rear cover on are 6mm.

 

Bonus!  Alternate hub partnumber is 21054-14600.

 

Thank you! Great info.

 

DD

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Update:

  • Raceneely is assisting us with rebuilding the water pump. Current water pump is NG.
  • Exhaust manifold is not being recoated with magnesium. It's toast. Raceneely providing us with a good used one.
  • Front seat frames welded up and repaired. Upholstery shop is coming by with vinyl samples next week.
  • Panasport wheels and Bridgestone tires have arrived at the shop.
  • Looking into 5 speed swap before the engine goes in. I have a line on a rebuilt transmission from a Roadster.

Thanks to Raceneely for assistance on the project.

More info next week.

 

Regards,
DD

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When repairing cracked front seat frames, insert a pipe fitting into the gap, tighten, and then have the repair weld penetrate to the pipe fitting!  This gives a superior strength over hit or miss tube to tube welds!  Full penetration butt welds with backup steel is the way to go!

 

Upholstery pattern is "wallaby" for the exact replacement visual duplicate of factory vinyl.  It's just as tough or maybe a little tougher than the factory version.  I would guess that if your local shop's jaws drop at the "wallaby" name, anything related to Kangaroo would do!

 

If you come to the JCCS in September I will show you the results of both repairs / replacements!  I did both.

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