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Blown RL411 engine

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What makes the U20 not fit?

 

the whole second chain. the timing cover and crank are longer.... it just dont fit right in, theres stuff that can be done but it requires a bit of molesting on the motor and car.

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All hope is not lost. I talked to a machine shop that is reputable with rebuilding Datsun motors and the price was reasonable. I'll see if I can make this happen. 

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I have my fingers cross that things work out well for you on this.

 

Thanks much K_Trip!

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Can one just drop in a motor from a '67 1600 Roadster? Any mods that need to be made? It seems they can be found quite easily from the Roadster crowd. I see one for $300.

Also, what are the implications of swapping a 1600 motor with metric connectivity? Easy to just bolt on? 

 

Thanks!

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Can one just drop in a motor from a '67 1600 Roadster? Any mods that need to be made? It seems they can be found quite easily from the Roadster crowd. I see one for $300.

Also, what are the implications of swapping a 1600 motor with metric connectivity? Easy to just bolt on? 

 

Thanks!

 

1- No. Not a drop in. First, the "as is" roadster engine is too long for the 411 engine compartment and mods need to be made. The water pump needs to be an RL411 with "bell shaped" spinner or a roadster water pump with the roadster spinner pulled and a RL411 spinner pressed into place. Can be done, I did it. Second, you need to replace the roadster crankshaft pulley and the alternator mount with the units from your existilg RL411 engine. Third, if a metric roadster engine, the cast aluminum valve cover will clear the windshield wiper motor assembly, otherwise you will have to substitute the RL411 valve cover. Fourth, you will need the exhaust manifold extension from your RL411 to fit the hole in the fender for the exhaust. It is probably simpler to swap the entire manifols and adapter since the gasket between the manifold and the adapter is no longer available [although someone with a stainless steel exhaust appears to be gearing up to manufacture a replacement].

 

2- Other than the above, a 5 main bearing metric engine [roadster '67 1/2 and on] will fit the hole left by a 3 main bearing SAE engine.

 

Good luck!

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1- No. Not a drop in. First, the "as is" roadster engine is too long for the 411 engine compartment and mods need to be made. The water pump needs to be an RL411 with "bell shaped" spinner or a roadster water pump with the roadster spinner pulled and a RL411 spinner pressed into place. Can be done, I did it. Second, you need to replace the roadster crankshaft pulley and the alternator mount with the units from your existilg RL411 engine. Third, if a metric roadster engine, the cast aluminum valve cover will clear the windshield wiper motor assembly, otherwise you will have to substitute the RL411 valve cover. Fourth, you will need the exhaust manifold extension from your RL411 to fit the hole in the fender for the exhaust. It is probably simpler to swap the entire manifols and adapter since the gasket between the manifold and the adapter is no longer available [although someone with a stainless steel exhaust appears to be gearing up to manufacture a replacement].

 

2- Other than the above, a 5 main bearing metric engine [roadster '67 1/2 and on] will fit the hole left by a 3 main bearing SAE engine.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks MikeRL411,

I guess I am not going to do the roadster "drop in" as it sounds like it would be easier to just rebuild the existing motor.

 

That said, if I was to find a 5 main bearing metric engine for a stroker, would I have to do all the mods you mentioned above for fitment? I assume so. I have the stainless steel exhaust downpipe from raceneely, it's the prototype and worked great when it was running. 

 

Thanks!

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Thanks MikeRL411,

 

That said, if I was to find a 5 main bearing metric engine for a stroker, would I have to do all the mods you mentioned above for fitment? I assume so. I have the stainless steel exhaust downpipe from raceneely, it's the prototype and worked great when it was running. 

 

Thanks!

 Yes, less the exhaust manifold which you have covered with the stainless steel new creation. [The marmon clamp is a real improvement] The external envelope for the metric and the SAE engine are the same.

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Thanks MikeRL411,

I guess I am not going to do the roadster "drop in" as it sounds like it would be easier to just rebuild the existing motor.

 

That said, if I was to find a 5 main bearing metric engine for a stroker, would I have to do all the mods you mentioned above for fitment? I assume so. I have the stainless steel exhaust downpipe from raceneely, it's the prototype and worked great when it was running. 

 

Thanks!

 

 

it looks as though you are reading too far into this. the block and everything are the same size, its the stuff bolted to it that make it not fit. the 411 has a few specific parts to put any r series in it.... water pump, oil pan, crank pulley, intake, exhaust, and alt mounts. all this is stuff you need to take off if you are rebuilding a motor, just swap it onto a running motor and be done. its what i did on my 411sss and its easy trust me.

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it looks as though you are reading too far into this. the block and everything are the same size, its the stuff bolted to it that make it not fit. the 411 has a few specific parts to put any r series in it.... water pump, oil pan, crank pulley, intake, exhaust, and alt mounts. all this is stuff you need to take off if you are rebuilding a motor, just swap it onto a running motor and be done. its what i did on my 411sss and its easy trust me.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense!

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Kevin, you are gonna be fine on this.... everyone is rooting for you. That is a kick ass specimen keep pushing .

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You're going to skin a few knuckles, stand up too fast and bump your head, hunt around the floor for the nuts and bolts you dropped, invent a few new cuss words and when you're finished you'll say "That wasn't so hard after all!"

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Thanks all for the encouragement, I definitely took it to heart. I'm going to keep the car and build it into a nice little sleeper 411.

Mechanic said it's going to be a lot of work but I made the decision to go ahead with the project. We're starting with the rebuilt motor. It's getting pulled out later this week or next. Not sure of mods yet, but I'll let you all know what I'm going to do. It looks as though the work will be done at Rebello after all. With the engine out, a few things will be done, like clutch job, radiator, thermostat, etc. Also, any basic safety repairs to the car to get it back on the road. Other niceties (like suspension, wheels, etc.) will come later in second stage of build.

Cheers guys, and thanks again.

411-rear_no-plate.jpg

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On the chance that your thermostat housing has corrosion to the extent that you are unsure if you should reuse it, a Kia Sephia housing is an almost exact replacement.  Just ream the metric holes in the flange to fit your bolts.

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Thanks all for the encouragement, I definitely took it to heart. I'm going to keep the car and build it into a nice little sleeper 411.

 

Mechanic said it's going to be a lot of work but I made the decision to go ahead with the project. We're starting with the rebuilt motor. It's getting pulled out later this week or next. Not sure of mods yet, but I'll let you all know what I'm going to do. It looks as though the work will be done at Rebello after all. With the engine out, a few things will be done, like clutch job, radiator, thermostat, etc. Also, any basic safety repairs to the car to get it back on the road. Other niceties (like suspension, wheels, etc.) will come later in second stage of build.

 

Cheers guys, and thanks again.

 

411-rear_no-plate.jpg

 

 

having rebello do it is gonna cost an arm and a leg..... these cars dont have alot to them so nothing should be too expensive...... let us know how this goes

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I know it won't be the cheapest build, but that's OK. I'll let you know how it progresses.

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Kevin , where you at on this?

Hi Tom,

The car is at Z Car garage. The engine was supposed to be pulled this week and sent to the machine shop. I'll be down at ZCG on Sat. for a run to the Canepa Motorsports Museum, so I'll find out the real progress then. I'll let you know what I see.

 

Cheers and thanks for asking.

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Engine still hasn't been pulled. It's in the queue, though. Should happen any time now. Can't wait!

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the u20 wont fit without alot of work, trust me its on my list of things to do and ive done all the measuring and such for it....

 

BTW, over the weekend, while touring Canepa Designs, had some roadster guy say that U20 will fit, "no problem," as it's the "same size." I told him that, "it's different for the 411s," but he couldn't be convinced. LOL. 

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BTW, over the weekend, while touring Canepa Designs, had some roadster guy say that U20 will fit, "no problem," as it's the "same size." I told him that, "it's different for the 411s," but he couldn't be convinced. LOL. 

 

 

Let's hear it for "the hole in the wall" exhaust exit through the left front fender!  If that doesn't convince him that there is a difference, nothing will. 

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just ask him about the 2 different fan shrouds for a roadster, 1600 and 2000... then about the 411 that has no fan shroud since the fan is up against the radiator and the water pump block is already gone... theres just no room unless you redesign alot of stuff.

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just ask him about the 2 different fan shrouds for a roadster, 1600 and 2000... then about the 411 that has no fan shroud since the fan is up against the radiator and the water pump block is already gone... theres just no room unless you redesign alot of stuff.

 

Nice! It's funny when an old dude talks like he knows EVERYthing about everything related to cars. Wish I remembered this info at the time to put him back in his place.  :thumbup:

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Coming to this conversation a little late.  Interesting stuff here.  FYI, to build out a stroker using a U20 crank will run you between about $2900-$3200 depending on how good your machinst is and what quality of gasket kits and pistons you go with.  For mine I had an extra U20 crank laying around so it cost me $150 to get the nose shortened  and a new keyway milled into it.  Also had to recut the threads for the bolt.  My block didn't clean up at 60 over so I sleeved it and had some custom Arias pistons built.  I spent quite a bit on a custom cam grind from Elgin, pushing $400 if I recall.  I built this motor for my 70 1600 but never got around to installing it. It will now live in my Dad's 67 early car that just came my way and get a 5 speed behind it.  If any of you guys swap in a 5 speed to an R16 keep in mind that you need to use the U20 back plate.  It is twice as thick as the R16 plate and will mess up the thrust if you miss this detail. You can also double up two R16 plates for true Ratsun style.  There is a boat load of information about building a stroker over on www.311s.org.  The fast and cheap way to do this is find an H20 motor and swap out the cast iron head for an aluminum R16 head.  Shifty has one it his car with Mikuni 44s on it and it is a pulling little beasty, right up until the cast head can't keep up with the carbs.  That will be rectified this winter with new head.

  I am throwing this out there so that you can get a handle on the "real" cost of doing this.  Not cheap to do it right but the gain is worth it in my opinion.  My 2000 with the U20 pulls great but the reality is at some point it will need a timing chain set for the tune of about $1200 for just the parts. 

Carry on.

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A little update. I just learned that 2 weeks ago the motor was pulled and is finally at Rebello. Going with an upgrade to larger pistons, etc. When I get the full work order, I can let you know more details.

 

At last!

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