Distributor Problem?

[DanielC]

Is it possible you have TDC #4, and not #1?

[Lee R]

Positive with #1. Had my helper cover the #1 cylinder hole with a thumb to feel the compression stroke when I turned the crank. When the air escaping stopped, I inserted a wood chopstick to touch the piston. Slowly cranked and it started to go down. Cranked the other way and went back up to TDC. The tick on the balancer was slightly off of 0 degrees so I cranked a bit more so that it Was at 0. (I think this may be my problem right now). Rotor ended up where you see it as pic a few posts up. Waiting for helper to set it again just to be sure.....

 

Sprayed some starter fluid to try again and this time it backfired good and loud but did not start.

[datzenmike]

With the rotor at TDC (or slightly before) place the cap over it and see if pointing to the #1 wire.

[Lee R]

With the rotor at TDC (or slightly before) place the cap over it and see if pointing to the #1 wire.[/

 

is before the #1. This is the rotor when I set TDC.

 

 

[datzenmike]

My point is that the plug fires at 12 degrees Before Top Dead Center so very slightly before is ok. I don't know where your rotor is supposed to be, but it better be pointing to the #1 plug wire on the cap directly above it.
put the cap on and look.

[Lee R]

My point is that the plug fires at 12 degrees Before Top Dead Center so very slightly before is ok. I don't know where your rotor is supposed to be, but it better be pointing to the #1 plug wire on the cap directly above it.

put the cap on and look.

That pic shows the rotor pointed in between #1 and #2, but closer to #1. I might be doing this wrong. Should TDC also show the balancer tick mark on 0 or 12 degrees? When i set it, it was at 0.

[datzenmike]

Try at 12 and loosen and turn the distributor until directly below the #1 wire on the cap. That should be really close to the correct timing.

[Lee R]

Set to TDC again at 0. Advanced by hand to 12 degrees. Rotor still in same position as above pic after advancing to 12. Now when cranking, a little bit of black smoke from the tail pipe. ?????!

[Buzzbomb]

Those plugs don't look awful, really... I've always understood backfiring as too timing too retarded. If you get your timing set around 12 BTDC like Datzenmike is instructing, I'd bet you can get it to start. All you need is to get in teh ballpark and then you can set it with the timing light. I chased a similar problem for days, and as I said earlier, it turned out I didn't have them plug wires on right :angel: . I can see you marked your wires, so that's good. A new cap and rotor eliminate all that mess, so you're good there.

 

One good thing I've gathered about Datsuns from Datzenmike's posts and others here is that Datsun's don't "skip time" like some other cars do. So you can eliminate that from the equation and focus on narrowing this down to what might be the problem. One thing that is a handy tool is a spark checker like you can get from Harbor Freight for $5. Really takes the guesswork out of it.

 

You have fuel, compression (plugs don't look ugly), so it has to be spark. Keep whittling away at it...

 

You're probably flooding it out if you're getting black smoke. One thing you can do is to hold the gas pedal to the floor and crank it over to TRY to clear out the excess gas if flooded. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

[Lee R]

Tested spark again and it is real good. BLUE!

 

Rotor over 1 on distributor.

[datzenmike]

Hold the choke plate open with something. Avoid pumping the pedal. Hold down and crank until the cylinders dry out or pull plugs and let sit over night. Clean the plugs meantime.

 

Firing order is 1342 in a counter clockwise direction on the dizzy cap.

[Lee R]

Ugh....setting TDC again (OCD) on the compression stroke. Rotor is pointing in the middle between 1 and 2 going counter clockwise. There is also a 1 stamped under the cap. The timing mark on the balancer is way short of 0. Like - 12 degrees. When I advance it to 0 the rotor moves away from #1 clockwise to #2. I keep feeling like I'm close but at the same time it seems like it changes. Weird.

 

Also, when I turn the crank on the compression stroke I hear a light hiss from the fuel pump area. I don't remember that before so is that normal? Just the fuel pump pumping?

[datzenmike]

Set the crank to TDC then move the notch on the pulley to the 12 degree mark or close. To do this you have to back the motor counter clockwise slightly. Get the notch around 10 or 12 degrees.

 

Now look at rotor. By loosening the set screws on the distributor you should be able to rotate the distributor body to get the rotor under one of the wires on the cap, any one it doesn't matter.

 

Once the rotor is pointing at a wire THAT... becomes #1 wire. If you have to, move all the other wires to fit it. 1342 in a counter clockwise direction.

[Lee R]

Set the crank to TDC then move the notch on the pulley to the 12 degree mark or close. To do this you have to back the motor counter clockwise slightly. Get the notch around 10 or 12 degrees.

 

Now look at rotor. By loosening the set screws on the distributor you should be able to rotate the distributor body to get the rotor under one of the wires on the cap, any one it doesn't matter.

 

Once the rotor is pointing at a wire THAT... becomes #1 wire. If you have to, move all the other wires to fit it. 1342 in a counter clockwise direction.

You mean the screws inside the distributor on the magnet or the one adjusting screw outside?

[datzenmike]

Down near the base of the dizzy there is a slotted plate and a set screw. Loosen anr you can twist the dizzy L or R to set the timing. Clockwise against the rotor turning direction advances the timing, Counter clockwise retards it.

[datzenmike]

Look for something like this...

[Lee R]

Yeah, did that and on first crank it gets a little "hesitation" like it wants to catch but doesn't. Cranking is getting a little slower now as we'll.

[Lee R]

Thanks Mike....you r really putting up with me. I really don't want to take it to a shop and feel failed.

[datzenmike]

Just remember there are an infinite number of ways for this not to work. You just have to find the few that do. So don't feel bad.

[Buzzbomb]

Dumb question but one that hasn't been asked, I think? How old is the battery? Believe it or not, you can have a battery that will crank the engine but not start it. Been there done that too. Perhaps you can take it somewhere while you let the whole thing dry out to at least get the battery topped up. Kills two birds with one stone- gets the battery at full charge AND eliminates it as a possibility.

[Lee R]

So rotor at TDC which would be #1. Now say I set TDC and the rotor happened to be pointed the opposite way 180 degrees. That would be #1 then right? Then you follow the firing order from there switching plug wires to match wherever the #1 is?

 

Is that what you said Mike because I think it just clicked.

 

 

Battery is one year old by the way and plenty of juice. Thanks Buzzbomb for asking. :)

[datzenmike]

Yup. TDC... rotor tip under any plug wire makes that wire the new number one, then 342 in a counter clockwise direction.

[Lee R]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!! I'm still not quite sure how this all started but it seems like someway, somehow, it jumped timing. Pulled the distributor but it didn't come out as easy as it should. Inspected the end of the shaft and splines and the looked good. Reinstalled it and it went in easier than it came out (too many innuendos) set TDC for like the 7th time and it started up with a little feathering of the throttle. Ran like a tractor until I timed it to 12 degrees and it is running like a top now. The crazy thing is it only took like 25 minutes instead of the past 8 hours of me scratching my head and bugging RATSUN.

 

Really appreciate everyone's help.

 

I should of done it early this morning so I could of parked next to Radim at the Mooneyes open house.

 

CHEERS!!!

[laotsu]

sounds like you put the dizzy on the spindle backwards.

[Lee R]

sounds like you put the dizzy on the spindle backwards.

Not at all. It's always been installed the correct way.