carburator help

[Javier 1111]

do you guys think this carb will fit in my 620??

 

" Weber 32/36 DGV Carburator/Formula Ford"

[laotsu]

sure, better get an adapter and you will probably have to rejet it if it's off of a Ford.

[MikeRL411]

Reminder!

 

The "How-to" section is  "This is how I did it" not "How the hell can I do it."

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

A Formula Ford is an open wheel SCCA race car and the DGVs used on them are heavily modified. They don't have choke plates, the auxilliary venturis are different, the power valve is sometimes disabled and they are going to be jetted way differently than your L20B.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Ford

 

Here's an article on what they do to the race carbs.

 

http://www.thelolaregistry.com/DIY/Weber.htm

[KlassicMotion]

If you want one for a street vehicle,  buy it new.  It will come with most everything you need for it, and it will be setup for your vehicle.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

We've talked about this.

 

Unless he orders from someone who will set it up and he specifies what vehicle it's going to be installed on, it probably won't be "set up". If he orders from some online warehouse it will more than likely have the "standard" Weber jetting.

[KlassicMotion]

We've talked about this.

 

Unless he orders from someone who will set it up and he specifies what vehicle it's going to be installed on, it probably won't be "set up". If he orders from some online warehouse it will more than likely have the "standard" Weber jetting.

 

The 32/36 Weber is pretty damn close when you order from:

 

http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/Carburetor_Conversion_Kits_s/25.htm?gclid=CLy9_q76nLgCFad_Qgod3X8AiQ

 

It's pretty much a bolt on carb.  Some situations may need a little more calibration than others.  Not difficult if you read and follow the directions.

 

Regardless of Stoffregen Motorsports Skepticism, it will be 10 times better than buying a used carb, especially if that carb didn't come from a running Datsun with the same engine you have.

 

I don't understand where your comming from Stroffregen.  What would be the better option?  Or is it just my word choice you don't like?

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Regardless of Stoffregen Motorsports Skepticism, it will be 10 times better than buying a used carb, especially if that carb didn't come from a running Datsun with the same engine you have.

 

I don't understand where your comming from Stroffregen.  What would be the better option?  Or is it just my word choice you don't like?

You tell these people that they come ready to bolt on and built specifically tuned for their motor. That's misleading. "10 times better" may still not be optimal.

 

I am trying to help, but I strive for perfection, not "close enough".

[datzenmike]

I would have to say that ordering a new carb is (in a way) striving for perfection or at the least crawling in the right direction. A used carb is just someone else's problems.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I would have to say that ordering a new carb is (in a way) striving for perfection or at the least crawling in the right direction. A used carb is just someone else's problems.

Right, but a new carb may still need some tuning to get it to work properly. And another problem with a used carb is age. They do wear out.

 

I'm not telling you guys that you're wrong, I'm just saying that there isn't a bolt on solution out there that will be perfect every time. And further more, what may be perfect in July may not be perfect in January. Carbs require tuning...always.

 

That's why they invented EFI.

[laotsu]

oh GOOD! More drama. I was worried Ratsun was getting mellow in it's old age.  :rofl:

[datzenmike]

Hell I was trying to agree with them both. New... better than old.... fine tuning ... even better

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

If I yell, do I get my point across any faster?

 

You guys will have to pardon my intensity, I just like to see a debate take it's course. Even with the highs and lows there can still be some good info. Debating is not arguing.

[laotsu]

 Debating is not arguing.

 

ARGUE:

1. Give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view.
2. Persuade someone to do or not to do (something) by giving reasons

DEBATE:

1. A discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints.
2. A formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.

 

 

I argue that debate and argument are synonymous, but that is open to debate. Any arguments?

[datzenmike]

Debate usually follows some pre arranged or understood rules and more likely to be orderly.

 

Arguing can more often get out of hand and go off the tracks.

 

 

It is possible for one to turn into the other

[laotsu]

'Twould seem that argument is concerned with swaying an opposing viewpoint to ones own, whereas debate is the presentation of varying viewpoints. 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I like where this discussion is headed and I love a good debate, but hate any kind of argument.

 

Ergo, discussion for the sake of expanding one's knowledge is a wonderful way to pass the time, and can lead to some interesting discoveries. Arguing on the other hand is usually done with one person doing most of the talking and nobody doing any real listening.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

'Twould seem that argument is concerned with swaying an opposing viewpoint to ones own, whereas debate is the presentation of varying viewpoints. 

Exactly! But I feel arguing has un-needed and unwanted emotion whereas debate is merely philosophical.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Shall we continue this debate over a cold beer?

[datzenmike]

I have no argument with that!

[KlassicMotion]

A used carb is just someone else's problems.

 

This is the point I'm trying to make. 

 

I've bought many a used carb in my youth and ended up spending lots of time and money getting junk to work, or is some cases, not work.

 

I recommend buying a NEW 32/36, because they are like $350.  Which in most cases is less than you might spend fixing "someone else's problems".

Right, but a new carb may still need some tuning to get it to work properly. And another problem with a used carb is age. They do wear out.

 

I'm not telling you guys that you're wrong, I'm just saying that there isn't a bolt on solution out there that will be perfect every time. And further more, what may be perfect in July may not be perfect in January. Carbs require tuning...always.

 

That's why they invented EFI.

 

Yes, and what wears out is the throttle shaft.  And most Newbies will buy a used carb, have issues with it, try to solve them on here, but sometimes it is difficult to narrow the issues down to a vacuum leak at the throttle shaft. "Buy new, and save time and money" That's my motto when it comes to carbs.

 

EFI is way to expensive for your average Ratsuner.  That's not a valid option for most people on here.  Thus, I don't consider it a better option than what I recommend.

 

I would have to say that ordering a new carb is (in a way) striving for perfection or at the least crawling in the right direction. A used carb is just someone else's problems.

 

 

You tell these people that they come ready to bolt on and built specifically tuned for their motor. That's misleading. "10 times better" may still not be optimal.

 

I am trying to help, but I strive for perfection, not "close enough".

 

Compared to most used carbs, a new carb will be the closest to bolt on you can get, and usually they will be more closely tuned to their application.  "Optimal" depends on application, use, and user. 

 

The problem is:  your stiving for perfection over the internet.  You can't get perfection over the internet.  Now if someone brought their vehicle into your shop, you can strive for perfection, because you can control the variables.  Most of the posts on here asking about issues only give you 1/4 of the details needed to solve the issue.

 

Anytime someone on here asks about buying a used Weber I will always recommend they look at buying a new one instead.  Especially if it's the downdraft carb, because they are relatively inexpensive.  On that note though, the DCOE's are usually the carbs that get jetted and rejetted a milion times over because most people don't know how to tune them.  I would especially stay away from a used DCOE.

 

They don't have to follow my advice, it's only a suggestion.  But its a suggestion backed by experience. 

 

Stoffregen, How would you like me to word my recommendation so you don't feel the need to stalk me on here and argue that my suggestion is not "perfect"? :console:

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

You said in an earlier post "if you want one for a street vehicle,  buy it new.  It will come with most everything you need for it, and iwill be setup for your vehicle."

 

My only point here is that they don't actually come set up for your vehicle. You have to do that for yourself.

 

Are they bolt on? Yes

 

Are they close, out of the box? Yes

 

Are they better than a used piece of junk? Yes

 

Are they specifically tailored for an individual vehicle? No

 

This is the internet, I get it, but here on this forum we're talking about cars, not the internet. If someone wants their car to run as good as it can they will either pay someone to have it done or learn how to do it themselves. I'm sorry that my input is not altogether helpful, but that doesn't make my information any less true. Same goes for you. You offer some really good advice, but it's just that one sticking point that if a guy buys a new carb it will be set up for him. Nobody can do that unless they have the engine out of the car to tune it to.

 

And the EFI remark wasn't really a suggestion, just an illustration.

[KlassicMotion]

oh GOOD! More drama. I was worried Ratsun was getting mellow in it's old age.  :rofl:

 

Sorry laotsu, Stoffregen and I worked things out, we're both on the same page now!

 

 

You said in an earlier post "if you want one for a street vehicle,  buy it new.  It will come with most everything you need for it, and iwill be setup for your vehicle."

 

My only point here is that they don't actually come set up for your vehicle. You have to do that for yourself.

 

Are they bolt on? Yes

 

Are they close, out of the box? Yes

 

Are they better than a used piece of junk? Yes

 

Are they specifically tailored for an individual vehicle? No

 

This is the internet, I get it, but here on this forum we're talking about cars, not the internet. If someone wants their car to run as good as it can they will either pay someone to have it done or learn how to do it themselves. I'm sorry that my input is not altogether helpful, but that doesn't make my information any less true. Same goes for you. You offer some really good advice, but it's just that one sticking point that if a guy buys a new carb it will be set up for him. Nobody can do that unless they have the engine out of the car to tune it to.

 

And the EFI remark wasn't really a suggestion, just an illustration.

 

Agreed. 

 

I realize now, I wasn't understanding your wording prior, when you were presenting you side of the debate.

 

It really isn't difficult for these guys to figure out how to tune their own carb.  For me, I just read the instructions... a few times... until I understood how all the circuits in the carb worked.  When you buy a new Weber, it comes with a nice set of instructions (available online too).  These instructions often don't come with a used carb.  The instructions give you some symptons of what to look for to indicate if you need different jetting.  If you determine you need different jetting, the Weber Jet kit comes with it's own instructions of basic re-jetting proceedure. 

 

So the competent person, should be able to figure most everything out on their own, or come close with the help of the guys on here.  Short of that, find someone in the area that can set up the carb for them.

 

I think most of the young guys on here look at price first and foremost.  They haven't learned yet, that if you don't have a lot of resources, you're better off spending a little more up front, saving yourself the hassle (equaling time and money) in the end.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Time = money

[MikeRL411]

Time = money

 

 

YBYSA it does!  Free translation available for the acronym unfamiliar [term used in lieu of what I was really thinking].