Aussie '66 411

[milesiles]

Struts have arrived.

 

Upper ball joints and rod ends are still on the way.

 

I am currently stripping out all the ball joints/rod ends. The other supplier that I thought I had found for lowers is a no-go. Long story, but don't bother. Once I get the lowers out, I will look at having them machined out to accommodate a more common unit.

 

Rest of the car is getting stripped ready for bodywork/paint.

 

Still researching bushes and airbags. Airbags are probably going to happen as the front springs have been cut and the rear lowering blocks appear to have been installed by a 5 year old, but that may come later, as just want it drive-able for now. 

 

I have taken some more pics and I will upload them when I get a chance.

 

Datman74: Group buy? Or do you have their contact details? While I think I can sort a fix locally at a fraction of that cost, I would consider paying that much as I just don't have the time. Cheers.

[Datman74]

Chasing details now....I'll let you know what I come up with.  Not sure how many sets the guy in Japan has and getting confirmation that they are in fact the correct part numbers as a lot of the original numbers were superceded

 

If I search on the part# I get a few US based places that are showing inventory on them too, 40160-24000.  Found them here and a couple of others.  Based on what AZhitman has shared in the past there's no difference with the lower left and right, his words

 

"Closer inspection reveals there's absolutely NO difference in the 40160-24000 and the original lower left ball joint. The ball joints on my car are identical (L to R) and also match exactly the 40160-24000 Nissan OEM part"

 

This might be another option if nothing else pays off.   I've got someone in Thailand chasing a set for me too, fingers crossed!

 

[milesiles]

I have checked out that site, thanks, just finding out if they ship to Australia.

[erichwaslike]

from what ive found there is a difference. the loweres angle towards the back of the car, just slightly

[milesiles]

The above site (nissanpartzone.com) does not ship directly to Australia. I have ordered and paid for a set of these ball joints through a US based, third party parts forwarder, 1-2 days US delivery then 5-7 days international. So a couple of weeks and they should be here.

 

I'll see how it goes.

 

Yes, they apparently do differ slightly left to right, however it is negligible and according to others this can be offset by using the machining tolerances to your advantage.

[milesiles]

Don't bother with nissanpartszone.com for these. They do not have them in stock even though the website states otherwise and are unable to help. My money has since been refunded.

 

Refurbishing the originals is looking the most likely option atm.

[milesiles]

Ok, so everyone loves photo's. I have a few off my phone, I did not realise how poor some them are until I uploaded them to photobucket. I have a good camera but have not dragged it out for this project yet. I still might...

 

So I am trying to do as little as possible to the Datto, just to get it running, so the interior will probably just get a clean and be put back, as is for now. A few stains and marks, not sure if the fronts are original as the rear are vinyl and fronts are cloth, if so headrests are missing.

 

I'm glad I went with my gut feeling and trailered it home. It had a few issues. The drive shaft was hitting the tunnel on the test drive. I was not kidding when I said it looked like the rear lowering blocks had been installed by a small child. You can see daylight through the stack.

So the blocks were loose and flogging around and pretty hacked up.

I dug through the spare parts box that came with the car (which has a fair amount of good stuff) and found some "left over" rear suspension parts. Turns out that they had just left out a few parts. They were a bitch to get in, but not a reason to leave them out! Cleaned them all up and put them back in. The stack afterwards...

Unfortunately there had been some collateral damage, again, I'm glad I did not drive it home, as the driveshaft had also taken out the rear brake line. Soon to be fixed. You can see where the driveshaft has taken the undercarraige paint off in the top RH corner. The driveshaft is pretty hacked up too but will probably go another few laps.

Plus the shackles have put pretty decent grooves in the axle/diff housing. Anyone have any idea how much meat is left? I really don't want to dig that deep yet, (pull the axles, measure, etc.) They are not leaking, so they will have to do for now too, will have to fix them before any power upgrades (like the AMR500 supercharger that is planned), so they don't snap off.

 

Grainy photo of the engine bay, seems pretty original apart from the amp meter.

Pic of one of my other cars. True it's not a Datto, but is of the same era. Ford '70 Mk1 Escort, 2L pinto, dedicated track car. Log booked back to '77. Goes hard.

[Pedro]

Great to see a 411 on the road with full rego. I don't think I have ever seen one that is still driven. A few deceased estate cars that pop up from oldies that don't drive anymore, but other than that never seen one on the roads over here.

[milesiles]

Pedro: cheers mate, yeah the rego was the most attractive part, not sure where your from, but in WA if it's licensed then it stays licensed until you either stop paying it, it is written off or defected and you can't get the sticker off. There are no yearly inspections like some of the other states. So it still being licensed is half the battle. The previous owner (a uni student, nice guy) was driving it, it was not his daily drive, he had a few other cars. Also did you ever end up finding those hubcaps? I have 3, two ok, one pretty smashed up.

 

I knew it had a few issues when I bought it, just from the test drive, I was not looking for another project, but just could not go past it. It's a little ripper of a car, I can't wait to be driving it every day.

 

Also, I have attempted to purchase the lowers form one final outlet in the U.S. they have accepted my order and my money, but like the rest, I fear that it will be returned as they are unable to supply. I'm not sure why I keep persisting, it's just the convenience of having them delivered if I can. 

 

I could only chuck a little time at it over the weekend, but the rear end is all back together, new struts installed and the suspension fixed (as above). I have now stripped all the front and Fedex tried to deliver something on Friday but failed, but they will re-deliver it today, pretty sure that will be the uppers/rod ends, etc. I might get a chance to fit some of these tonight. The old lower ball joints are out, so I will  push on with getting them refurbished regardless. Clean them up, measure them, etc. I wish I had my own means to machine them, rather than try find someone else. Luckily I know a few guy's in the game. Shouldn't be too hard...

 

So a few questions...

 

The overriders on the front bumper seem different to the others I have seen, more round, with no rubber/bumper parts. Are these standard kit? Off another model/year/car altogether? 

 

Do any other model quarter glass window rubbers match the 411? Roadster perhaps? 

 

Also inside each door is an alloy scuff/scratch plate, (I can take some pics if needed). Are these standard? Or something someone has made? 

 

Lastly, I have ordered some NOS Datsun badges, I have gone with the older Datsun script ones as I like the style more, were these only on the 410's? Or did they come out on some of the 411's as standard?

[MikeRL411]

The overriders on the front bumper seem different to the others I have seen, more round, with no rubber/bumper parts. Are these standard kit? Off another model/year/car altogether? 

 

Do any other model quarter glass window rubbers match the 411? Roadster perhaps? 

 

Also inside each door is an alloy scuff/scratch plate, (I can take some pics if needed). Are these standard? Or something someone has made? 

 

Lastly, I have ordered some NOS Datsun badges, I have gone with the older Datsun script ones as I like the style more, were these only on the 410's? Or did they come out on some of the 411's as standard?

 

 

 

These are the front and rear bumper guards and the interior, don't think I went low enough toshow the lower interior of the door bit they do not have metal scuff plates, must have been an after thought.  Hope these pix help.  Also, "DATSUN" markers on front fenders are block not script.

 

Rear

 

Front

 

Engine

 

Alt front

 

Interior

[Datman74]

Still waiting on the guys in Japan and Thailand to get back to me on the lower ball joints.  I have a feeling that if it's been this long that they might turn up empty.  The guy in Thailand seemed pretty positive he could get them though....we shall see

 

Found a place here in Melbourne that will refurb the lowers for $150 a side, they apparently cut the ball out and replace it then weld it back together.  Definitely preferential over injecting them with plastic.

 

The front bumper you are running is from a 1964 410 with the metal overriders.  From 1965 the 410's and 411's had the rubber inserts.  The front and rear overriders on the 64 model were the wider metal version.

 

Both my 410 and 411 have scuff plates on the door sills, the style is consistent with the scuffs they use in the 510's but with a kind of a dimply aluminium finish.  I'll see if I can grab a pic tomorrow for comparison

 

Cheers

[milesiles]

Cheers mate, thats answers my bumper question. I actually prefer that style, I was just wondering if it was era correct, Close enough!

 

No that's cool, that sounds like them, I was just wondering if the strips were original equipment too, just stripping it down for a quick touch up and they just seemed a little agricultural. 

 

 

I got a copy of the parts book and service manual on PDF and was going to upload it but found a copy of the manual here:-

http://www.datsun510.com/manuals/Service_Manual_Datsun_Model_411_Series.pdf

 

and parts catalogue here:-

http://www.datsun510.com/manuals/Parts_Catalog_Datsun_Blue_Bird_410-411_1964-68.pdf

 

My copy has better quality pics and I can run it through a PDF reader to recognise text to add a search function if need be. Also came with a wiring diagram but pretty sure there are already plenty of copies of this floating around.

 

Yeah still working on a solution to my lower balljoint problem, still holding a small hope that I will get some out of the US.

But still looking for a ball joint taper/degree measurement if anyone knows, save measuring mine?

[milesiles]

So I had a 5 day long weekend and went fishing up the coast so I did not get a lot done. Lots of parts have started to come in.

 

I did get the rear lenses cleaned up... Some were pretty cloudy, but nothing heavy sandpaper, then wet and dry, then toothpaste and finally red lens dye couldn't fix.

 

Before

 

During.

After.

 

Close enough.

[Pedro]

Good job on the lense restore mate. I'm in nsw, so yeah inspections yearly hence why there are no 411's on full rego here.

 

I managed to score a mint set of 410 lenses off yahoo jp over a year ago luckily (will probably be the best bit on my car, ha). I did get a set of hubcaps, they are datsun of some sort but not 411, but they still look just as cool so I'll run them.

 

Keep the updates coming. With my suspension I'm looking for a complete replacement front end (crossmember to spindle/knuckle etc). If you can think of anything similar that doesn't use a strut tower let me know as I'm looking for donors.

[milesiles]

So any hopes of a quick turn around, daily driver, are gone. I just can't help myself. Car is now completely stripped, more so than the following pics show.

Still only crappy phone pics, also Photobucket not working properly anymore on my Mac, which I think is making them even worse.

 

 

Heater core was leaking, so was bypassed, that is off getting serviced, along with the radiator, which will be going back in with thermo fans.

All old sound deadening out, newer, better performing stuff on order.

Dash out and already re-painted, with a few repairs made.

Seats are out and rears are getting re-trimmed as is, front buckets have been shaved to a nicer shape and will be re-trimmed in leather too, just sourcing a supplier, but covers have been stripped and patterns made. Door cards will also be cleaned and re-trimmmed.

Moulded carpets are hard to come by so flat stock has been ordered and I will cut/sew/mould new ones using the old ones as template.

 

 

 

Drawing I have up in my office at work as inspiration, partly hand drawn, partly unashamedly ripped off the net and partly photoshopped.

 

Engine is out and is now cleaned and completely stripped. Compression test was ok but will still probably get a freshen up while I'm there. New water pump is on order as the other ones housing was corroded, could have been bought back but not worth the effort. Full gasket kit and felt seals on order.

I have sourced a second inlet/exhaust manifold which will be modified for AMR500 and probably a side draught but will try not let this hold up the project, it may go back together in standard config first. Engine/tranny mounts seem fine so will go again. Crossmember mounts a diff story.

 

 

Evidence of previous stages of repair, lots of lead swiping and lots of bog. I am all for ingenious solutions but ramming waddings of rag into the rust holes so the bog sticks is not one of them... Don't get me wrong, I am gonna bog the hell out of this thing (my other projects are getting full resto's with lead swiping, but this is not one of them), anyway, the rust has been either cut out or treated (just a small patch in drivers floor left, and I have not even cracked the sills as I don't even want to know what is going on there, more on that later) It is important to note though, that  even though I will be making some changes, any changes will not be permanent, they will all be reversible later. 

 

 

So, I still have the following questions please:-

 

Do any other model quarter glass window rubbers match the 411? Roadster perhaps? 

 

Same with crossmember bushes?

Lower balljoint angle?

 

Next up, car archeology. 

[erichwaslike]

hey i noticed you posted on the blocks being all knackered, its because of the way they are installed. if tou get new blocks, install them between the spring and the rubber isolater they wont wear like that. also they dont fit in the perch and plate below proper if they are done the way you have em. the pin size is way smaller than the hole in the plate. if you happen to need another set of those rubber peices casue the po cut them i have a set id drop in the mail to you if you pay postage. lmk if this helps at all

[jfbrink]

Regarding lower ball joints for the 411, one could always follow me down a crazy path....

 

First off, as Erichwaslike notes, there is a real difference between left and right lower ball joints. As he notes, the top face of the ball portion of the carrier tips back, making the two joints mirror images of each other. I think this tip is meant to "center" the ball's range of motion when the suspension is neutral. I assume this centering is necessary otherwise Nissan wouldn't have bothered, but I am going to measure to make sure. 

 

Second, I am starting with an LBJ from a 1990-2002 Honda Accord, and I am building a custom carrier that I can press it into and then bolt onto the 411 lower control arm. The Accord LBJ is very similar to one in the stock 411, just with a .040" larger diameter pin. A slight reaming of the hole in the knuckle (with a 7.15 degree reamer) and it will fit nicely with ball center right at the stock location. 

 

The tricky part, which I'm just staring, is measuring the stock LBJ to get the mounting holes, ball center and the "tip" all correctly positioned in relation to each other. Once that's done, the fabrication will be relatively straightforward. 

 

I'll be reporting my progress. I will be going as fast as I can, because I can't drive my car until I'm done, but life and work get in the way. 

 

Best,

 

Jesse. 

[milesiles]

I still have a set of lowers on back/special order from a place in the U.S. (6-8 week lead time) although I am not holding my breath, so I am also rebuilding the originals. My plan is similar to yours, however I intend to re-use the old carrier (if after machining there is still enough meat left), mine have become less time critical as the car has become a bit more of a project.

 

Also while the lowering blocks are meant to go at the top of the stack, because they were so chewed out, I re-machined them to fit under the lip and within the stack, so they are now custom ;)

[jfbrink]

Are you going to use the old carrier with a new ball-and-pin (if so, from where) or with a new press-in ball joint assembly (if so, from where)? 

 

Because, potentially that would be way easier than what I'm doing, and I am lazy. 

 

Best,

 

Jesse. 

[milesiles]

Hey,

 

Yeah the plan is to use a new press in, more commonly found, entire ball joint. Not sure where from yet, as this will depend on the size of the hole once the old one is removed. I will update this bit as I go...

[milesiles]

I have plenty of updates... will post some more pics one day. Although getting closer to paint. Heaps of parts on the way. I am also currently looking at a '65 roadster project car. Only problem is it's about 

3500km/2000 miles away. Thats never stopped me before, the price is right, but I'm just looking into the logistics of it atm.

[MikeRL411]

A V8 Cedric and a straight six Gloria and you will be as complete as any Datsun nut can be!

[milesiles]

So the roadster may not go ahead. It is still for sale and may still come off, but just too hard to get over to the westcoast I think. Plus I have also already bought another project... A Holden '54 FJ ute and a worked GTR Skyline to go under it. But any way I digress...

 

Datto is coming along well, heaps of parts have come in. Just a quick update. Final ball joint order fell over, went from 6-8 week special order to countrywide back order. Got my money back. I knew it was a long shot but was always only the back up plan. Replacement generic ball joints will be here in a few days, carriers are already stripped and cleaned, then it will be off to the machinist to hopefully have them married together (if all goes to plan). I have pics of the start of this process but will wait till they are finished before I post.

 

The first AMR500 has arrived, along with the twin SU's. I have not finished my calculations yet but have some plans. Alloy inlet and steel exhaust flanges and mechanical fuel pump blanking plate are getting lazer cut long with the ball joint work. New water pump, thermostat housing and thermostat have arrived, amongst other parts.

 

Seats/interior are stripped, cleaned, reshaped and patterns made, been talking to a few automotive leather suppliers. Trying to find a place that will supply the leather, carpet, sound deadening, etc all in one sale.

 

So, a few pics...

 

New OEM steering wheel centre/horn ring. Off a SSS but fits and i like it.

 

Possibly the best part found so far, found jammed under the dash. A decal that must have once been stuck on the firewall? It is being mounted on a magnet and stuck front and centre on the dash to cover over the old AM/FM radio hole.

[Johnlorio]

I ordered two rh lower ball joints from Carl at New Datsun Parts from Japan. They only had one side in stock. I had them installed by a good local shop. They reported the same thing Greg Childs did -- that there is a lh and rh side but they just had to elongate one hole to make them fit. The alignment came in perfectly on both sides so I dont see a downside. The NoS lowers were very expensive though--$260 each, which could be reason enough to try other options. It also took about 12 weeks to get them in. I have found Carl to be excellent to work with and very honest and helpfull.

[milesiles]

In my never ending search for parts, i found a second hand keyhole rear tail light surround, no lenses. Just in case anyone is looking, seems to be a commonly chased item.

 

http://www.abouttimespares.com.au/showpartslist.asp?cat=4&sub=115&subsub=2438