SU Air Cleaners for a Ratsun Price!

[ser240z]

For anyone looking to do this, or add some stub stacks to your SU's, I just received my stub stacks from Amazon. K&N 85-5039 for the HS4. I paid $7.89 each. Don't know how long the sale was going on, or it this is a permanent price, but check it out if you're in the market for these.

 

Scott

[zerow]

For anyone looking to do this, or add some stub stacks to your SU's, I just received my stub stacks from Amazon. K&N 85-5039 for the HS4. I paid $7.89 each. Don't know how long the sale was going on, or it this is a permanent price, but check it out if you're in the market for these.

 

Scott

I've seen those. A Stub Stack is a Stub Stack. I got mine from Advanced Performance Technology of Riverside, California. They are CNC Machined, and allow for a bit more on the flanged surface.

 

http://www.aptfast.com/Images_Parts/kn/Filters_Components/2xMSS4_KN.jpg

 

ser240z, are you running the air filters??

[ser240z]

I've seen those. A Stub Stack is a Stub Stack. I got mine from Advanced Performance Technology of Riverside, California. They are CNC Machined, and allow for a bit more on the flanged surface.

 

http://www.aptfast.com/Images_Parts/kn/Filters_Components/2xMSS4_KN.jpg

 

ser240z, are you running the air filters??

 

Haven't gotten that far yet. I ordered them with the intent to run the filters, but I'm having some issues with the car right now. I actually still need to order the filter pieces too, so not even close yet. I'll let you know as soon as I do though.

 

Scott

[zerow]

(Thread resurrection with helpful information!)

 

I recommend the websites: http://www.jetlink.net/~okayfine/su/sumain.html (credit to the webmaster)

 

http://www.sportsimports.ca/archive/technicaltips/att06.htm (credit to the webmaster)

 

Carburetor Type: Hitachi HJL38W6 (roadster is similar, but not the same)

 

Parts for rebuild:

(IMHO best place for parts found thus far)

http://www.ztherapy.com/products/masterprices/master_price_list.htm

(Scroll down 3/4 way down page to Datsun 510 SSS)

 

What I have bought:

(From Z Therapy)

ZT31-608 Needles and seats (pair)

ZT097 Float Bowl Gaskets

 

(From Nissan)

99996-D1110 Linkage Kit

16174-15801 Phenolic Spacers with Gaskets

16061-K1407 Float (X2)

(BTW: If your counter guy says these numbers are not valid, tell him to check the Motorsports catalog; trust me, I have the boxes to prove these numbers are correct)

 

Cleaned sliding portion of nozzles with 0000 steel wool with a very small amount of metal polish

(Brasso or eqivalent)

 

Replaced throttle return springs (Home Depot)

 

Refinished heat shield (heat resistant paint)

 

Replaced Fuel lines (Stainless steel intake lines, flexible rubber fuel bowl lines)

 

Replaced Hardware at Float Bowls (M5x12mm) and Domes (M5x16mm) I recommend Stainless Allen Head fasteners, looks nicer and easier to ensure tight fit without stripping

[zerow]

Found different lids...

 

This is the look I was hoping for... :thumbup:

[AgentOrange]

I know I am a "noob" to the ratsun forums, but hopefully you will be open to a bit of perspective from someone who has been on SU's for 5 years now.

Originally, my SU's had a setup similar to what you have created. (didnt look nearly as nice as yours tho). Kid I bought them from did almost exactly as you have done, and I thought that was fine until I got a heads up from a datsun old schooler.

I daily drive my 510 as well as attending monthly auto-x, here is why I switched away from the "Tuna Can" solution.

ANY difference in resistance to airflow between the 2 carbs throws the balance out of whack, and makes things run weird. (SUs like to be one big carb)

There is no problem with individual filters as long as they are CLEAN. Once they get dirty, even after cleaning, things were never the same for me.

By using a single air filter to cover both carbs the resistance will always be identical, and each carb has double the surface area of filter to draw air through.

This prevents "lumpy" idle and rev due to balanced carbs becoming unbalanced by difference in air draw resistance.

 

Another simple solution for an aircleaner....

I use an 80's ford escort filter. (long oval style) 2" thick and more surface area total than Tuna Cans.

Here is how it was done.

1 get some sheet aluminum .

2 trace the aircleaner twce, with a little extra here and there to make bent tabs to hold in filter.

3 cut 2 plates out (one for back, 2nd for cover.)

4 prep backing plate to bolt to carbs by making necessary holes for carb intakes and bolts etc.

5 drill 2 additional holes in backing plate and cover plate for long bolts to attach cover to plate

once assembly is completed and filter is in. OR weld bolts to backing plate

6 MAKE stub Stacks with block aluminum and a file.

Bonus= With the low cost overall....MAKE A BETTER HEAT SHIELD!!! the stock style is really in-sufficient. Mine now covers the inside, bottom, and rear of the carbs and I can sit in traffic all day without vapor lock. AND if desired you can now route the vent tubes into the filter and because the bottom is covered past the exhaust manifold there is very little chance of fire (mine are not because I dont plan on flipping my car, and i have never heard of them overflowing on properly setup SU's

Oh yea, one more thing, hows this for a Ratsun solution...?

TOTAL COST = < $50 FOR EVERYTHING INCLUDING FILTER and heat shield.

TOTAL TIME = MAYBE 5 HOURS most of it was spent making the stub stacks...(which I couldnt

find aftermarket @ the time)

My setup is now 5 years old, and not shiny anymore, but I would gladly take a pic if anyone is curious.

Cheers!

Dan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FoxyRoadster]

I know I am a "noob" to the ratsun forums, but hopefully you will be open to a bit of perspective from someone who has been on SU's for 5 years now.

Originally, my SU's had a setup similar to what you have created. (didnt look nearly as nice as yours tho). Kid I bought them from did almost exactly as you have done, and I thought that was fine until I got a heads up from a datsun old schooler.

I daily drive my 510 as well as attending monthly auto-x, here is why I switched away from the "Tuna Can" solution.

ANY difference in resistance to airflow between the 2 carbs throws the balance out of whack, and makes things run weird. (SUs like to be one big carb)

There is no problem with individual filters as long as they are CLEAN. Once they get dirty, even after cleaning, things were never the same for me.

By using a single air filter to cover both carbs the resistance will always be identical, and each carb has double the surface area of filter to draw air through.

This prevents "lumpy" idle and rev due to balanced carbs becoming unbalanced by difference in air draw resistance.

 

Another simple solution for an aircleaner....

I use an 80's ford escort filter. (long oval style) 2" thick and more surface area total than Tuna Cans.

Here is how it was done.

1 get some sheet aluminum .

2 trace the aircleaner twce, with a little extra here and there to make bent tabs to hold in filter.

3 cut 2 plates out (one for back, 2nd for cover.)

4 prep backing plate to bolt to carbs by making necessary holes for carb intakes and bolts etc.

5 drill 2 additional holes in backing plate and cover plate for long bolts to attach cover to plate

once assembly is completed and filter is in. OR weld bolts to backing plate

6 MAKE stub Stacks with block aluminum and a file.

Bonus= With the low cost overall....MAKE A BETTER HEAT SHIELD!!! the stock style is really in-sufficient. Mine now covers the inside, bottom, and rear of the carbs and I can sit in traffic all day without vapor lock. AND if desired you can now route the vent tubes into the filter and because the bottom is covered past the exhaust manifold there is very little chance of fire (mine are not because I dont plan on flipping my car, and i have never heard of them overflowing on properly setup SU's

Oh yea, one more thing, hows this for a Ratsun solution...?

TOTAL COST = < $50 FOR EVERYTHING INCLUDING FILTER and heat shield.

TOTAL TIME = MAYBE 5 HOURS most of it was spent making the stub stacks...(which I couldnt

find aftermarket @ the time)

My setup is now 5 years old, and not shiny anymore, but I would gladly take a pic if anyone is curious.

Cheers!

Dan

 

 

Shouldn't be an issue if you tune them proper. Anyone that has SU carbs should have a vacuum gauge to sync their carbs.

[zerow]

Great story, agentorange, but have you had Hitachi SU carbs on a 610? I have a brake booster where you do not. I have a 15/16 master cylinder with reservoirs that protrude into the space needed to maneuver an oval air cleaner box where you do not. Even with all of the love in the world, I wanted the OEM filter box from Nissan to fit, but there was no way it would work. Hence the write up. Pontiac uses it with Tri-Power carbs and I dont see those guys having the problems described. It all comes down to proper maintanence of the air filter assembly. This is an effective solution at a ratsun price. The stub stacks are not necessary, but improve air flow. If the heat shield that came original with the car were so bad, then there should have been a recall or other solution from Nissan. I haven't heard any problems from others who are running the stock style heat shield. If your solution works, great! But this alternative was what I needed at the time for my SUs, otherwise I would be at a loss for running an air filter on the car.

[MikeRL411]

Great story, agentorange, but have you had Hitachi SU carbs on a 610? I have a brake booster where you do not. I have a 15/16 master cylinder with reservoirs that protrude into the space needed to maneuver an oval air cleaner box where you do not. Even with all of the love in the world, I wanted the OEM filter box from Nissan to fit, but there was no way it would work. Hence the write up. Pontiac uses it with Tri-Power carbs and I dont see those guys having the problems described. It all comes down to proper maintanence of the air filter assembly. This is an effective solution at a ratsun price. The stub stacks are not necessary, but improve air flow. If the heat shield that came original with the car were so bad, then there should have been a recall or other solution from Nissan. I haven't heard any problems from others who are running the stock style heat shield. If your solution works, great! But this alternative was what I needed at the time for my SUs, otherwise I would be at a loss for running an air filter on the car.

 

 

A factory, but not authentic to your car is possible. The "unobtainium" RL411 air filter housing and filters are an inch shorter than the "standard" roadster assembly precisely for brake cylinder and firewall clearance. Tana has some housings I believe, give her a call if you are interested. The RL411 box comes with integrated velocity stacks as a bonus. They also bring in the PCV hose outside the filter so that carbon and crud is filtered out and not dumped into your carb throats.

[MikeRL411]

Great story, agentorange, but have you had Hitachi SU carbs on a 610? I have a brake booster where you do not. I have a 15/16 master cylinder with reservoirs that protrude into the space needed to maneuver an oval air cleaner box where you do not. Even with all of the love in the world, I wanted the OEM filter box from Nissan to fit, but there was no way it would work. Hence the write up. Pontiac uses it with Tri-Power carbs and I dont see those guys having the problems described. It all comes down to proper maintanence of the air filter assembly. This is an effective solution at a ratsun price. The stub stacks are not necessary, but improve air flow. If the heat shield that came original with the car were so bad, then there should have been a recall or other solution from Nissan. I haven't heard any problems from others who are running the stock style heat shield. If your solution works, great! But this alternative was what I needed at the time for my SUs, otherwise I would be at a loss for running an air filter on the car.

 

If you do get the RL411 housing, I have 4 genuine correct size Datsun filters in the factory packaging and can give you one. Coming to the JCCS ?

[zerow]

I will be at JCCS, Mike. I am going to run what I made for a while. Aren't the spacing between carbs different between the RL411 and 10-series engines??

[MikeRL411]

I will be at JCCS, Mike. I am going to run what I made for a while. Aren't the spacing between carbs different between the RL411 and 10-series engines??

We can pop the hoods and find the answer to this question. I will toss a RL411 filter in the trunk in case some deserving soul [or car] should appear on the scene.

[screamer510]

Here are some other pics of the completed carbs, with new stainless fuel inlet lines:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />What do you think...??<br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

I don't have my car in front of me and I am new to the whole SU carb setup. Does the PCV valve in the center of the manifold hook up to the breather vent tube on top of the cam cover?

Thanks. I like your resourcefulness (thrift!)

Dan

[bonvo]

no the tube that comes from the block goes to the pcv valve your gonna need to make a hose for it because stock it went to the down draft intake

[zerow]

Like bonvo said, the PCV comes from the crankcase and attaches to the valve between the carbs.

 

screamer510 (Dan) - what engine are you running? L16/L18 or L20B? I had to get very creative with the plumbing for my PCV on the L20B I am running. I ended up cutting the PCV hardline to roughly inline with the middle of the carbs. Then I found a 90 degree L that would fit the I.D. of the hardline to make the sharp bend up towards the carbs and act as a reducer (the hardline has an O.D. of ~7/8") to get the 5/8" line for the PCV valve. I still have to address the breather at the top of my valve cover... :/

[screamer510]

I'm running an L20. I had a chance to look at it tonight, and it looks like the PO did what you described, "getting creative."

I need a manual...

Dan

[zerow]

P.O.'s are notorious for doing that...

My PCV plumbing got real dressy, real fast because the hose is effectively exposed to a lot of heat from the exhaust manifold. I used some Stainless braided line to match my intake plumbing hoses. It looks great and functions even better :thumbup:

[Boom death]

Got my parts ordered in waiting for them to come in and build these ratsun style air cleaners for my su's and great job on the write up looks pretty straight forward

[Boom death]

took forever to get my parts in but it worked like a charm now just need to polish my su domes and other random shib :thumbup:

 

[zerow]

Nice job! It looks good in an HL510!

Boom - it says you are from Riverside...where? I grew up in Riverside (Near Arlington and Van Buren) and my parents are still living there.

Come out to the Inland Empire Datsun Meet! Next one is on the 18th of January. Here is the event info: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/10888-inland-empire-classic-datsun-jdm-meet/

[Boom death]

Thanks man ... It's a great write up on ur part made it super easy ... Yeah I'm in the other side of riverside by Armstrong and Sierra ... I've always wanted to go but I always work weekends so it makes it tough to head out to the meets but I will make it one day lol

[delariva]

Great write up, and with all of the comments that followed this thread was really helpful / informative. Your carb setup looks great.