Jump to content

510 Wagon Rear Lowering Kit


Dzaster

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 105
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Also, I considered a design similar to Cal Tracks where there is an pivot shackle at the front mount to allow bind free movement during suspension travel but even before I realized I didn't require bar length change, I dismissed the design based on the fact it applies unnatural pressure to the top of the leaf spring right behind the front spring eye during axle wrap situations. Since I'm using composite leafs, I decided the unique design and materials wasn't up to this task.

 

Joel

Link to comment

if the bar travels in a arc how could it be in the same postion and length at three different places along the arc.....i get that its the same length ....but when its dropped it will pull the axle forward and when its at compression its the same.....my only reference is that the leaf spring is designed to operate one semi linear plane while the bar will put force against that plane while its traveling on its arc...everything i am suggesting is only under normal driving  not the forces under hard leaves...or extreme acceleration  which would only magnify the forces...lengthening the bar will make the arc smaller yet be unpractical  as it would prolly drag alot of the time...im sorry if i'm coming across as a dick i'm just simply asking......i never was comparing a ladder bar set up to this nor am i questioniing the fab ,... there beautiful pieces.......very nice.....im just asking if one is traveling at a linear movement and the another along a arc then there will be forces counter acting one another..... that MAY cause binding...a bar with welded bungs on each end will never vary in length...although it will vary in location as it travels through its arc.....and i know u mentioned earlier that u wanted to be lower than this  too ... so i assume once u lower it that shackle mount will be even closer to the ground........if u ever driven a static dropped hardbody u can sympathize......i finally had to mod the front perch .....that fucker drug on road reflectors..

 

 

 

 

.i looked at some other similar set ups and they messed with the design of the front mount....to lessen the height ....they all are similar in styles...but i swear the one son of  a datsun guy used was a slip joint........

Link to comment

Thanks for sharing this info Joel. My wagon front mounts are in pretty darn good shape for being decently lowered a few years now so I don't think it's been kissing much speed bumps or driveways.

 

Was wondering how you determined the arrangement of the bar length for to remain neutral through full range of suspension travel, just air up and down shocks and check as you go?

 

@ jrock, that one with Son_of_A_Datsun_Guy is a kit from Kelvin Dietz--he said so in his WIP thread. I think that slip joint you were referring to was simply to account for different lengths one might need due to height differences, as Kelvin Dietz bars are fixed length like Joel's are.

 

Although, member SOADG did state "telescoping", so unless Kelvin came up with a different design other than which was on his own wagon, I don't think it was an actual functioning slip joint setup.

Link to comment

First off Rock, my apologies... I never meant to sound offended in the least, I'm just doing my best to contribute to this little brain storm session :) Sometimes I can come off harsh on the internet without realizing or intending to do so. Text on a screen can be cold and interpreted dozens of ways.

 

You are correct in the fact that the typical sing shackle leaf spring design allows the diff to travels in a semi linear path but in my case, the spring are so de arched, they are flat at ride height. That and the diff favors the front of the spring leaving the majority of the arch (as little as there is) as the diff droops to the rear (does that make sense?) So just like my straight bars that are in line with the springs, the distance between the diff center and front mount doesn't change. If the spring had any significant arch (like a truck or factory wagon leaf even) as the spring flattened the diff would move towards the rear of the car. This brings me back to the point that I have designed my current system to my exact suspension setup. If your running all block and maintain a factory arched spring, the same rules wouldn't apply. This is also why one kit won’t work for every suspension design without significant compromise or an integrated self adjusting feature.

 

CAD helped to get everything close and luck aided in making it perfect :) Needless to say, I have confirmed that there is no change in length between mounting points via cycling the suspension from full droop to full compression (provided by the dead weight of my friends)

 

 

Son_of_A_Datsun_Guy does have a slip in his bars and I’m sure that’s what the designer figured was needed to compensate for multiple application standards and lengths (integrated self adjusting feature) but as I pointed out, the forces act in parallel in this design which is why he still has axle wrap issues thus the need for floor pan mods. There is the potential that his slip does indeed bind or even bottom out but it won’t stop %100 and maybe not even %50 of the axle wrap. I'm not here to get down on someone else’s design or work, this is purely my observation and Son_of_A_Datsun_Guy has been extremely helpful to me during my build.

 

Joel

Link to comment

First off Rock, my apologies... I never meant to sound offended in the least, I'm just doing my best to contribute to this little brain storm session :) Sometimes I can come off harsh on the internet without realizing or intending to do so. Text on a screen can be cold and interpreted dozens of ways.

 

Joel

  hey ,  me too lol interwebz high 5......fucking epic response.....

 

soadg has the same composites too, thats why i was wondering too...i wondered aloud about the slip yoke  too ... i really thought to maximize it it would need the tight tolerances of splining...other wise any slop would translate into a less effective piece...

 

funny part i dont even have leaf springs in my goon ..... i was more just asking for my own knowledge and understanding ... i appreciate your articulate response to my laymans ass hat concerns

Link to comment

I once read about something Tacoma guys do for their trucks. They have issues with age, their leafs get saggy and tend to wrap a lot, seems super common, at least on forums.

 

Anyways, one of the "fixes" which many reported saying it worked, was to simply use a Ubolt (Square style) and plate to hug the leaf pack.

 

Im tempted to try it, whats the worst that could happen?

 

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/1st-gen-tacomas/108316-goodbye-axle-wrap-mod.html

Link to comment

Im familiar with Hellwig products, they are fairly nice, I install them at work.

 

But if you continue reading in the thread, you will notice the talk is about not needing the leaf at all. Just the U-bolts/clamps. I found it interesting.

Link to comment

I'm working with Kelvin on a new group buy for his traction bar set up that was mentioned on page 2 of this thread:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kelvins_pics/sets/72157626784952719/

 

I'm stuck at work right now, but should have some details/pricing posted up in the next day or so.  I'll post an ad in the classifieds and link to it in this thread once it's up.

 

Thanks,

Ryan

Link to comment

I'm working with Kelvin on a new group buy for his traction bar set up that was mentioned on page 2 of this thread:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kelvins_pics/sets/72157626784952719/

 

I'm stuck at work right now, but should have some details/pricing posted up in the next day or so.  I'll post an ad in the classifieds and link to it in this thread once it's up.

 

Thanks,

Ryan

 

 

Dude! I never see you post, but I love your wagon! It was my inspiration when I first got my wagon. I often used it for doing my photoshops.

Link to comment

I'm working with Kelvin on a new group buy for his traction bar set up that was mentioned on page 2 of this thread:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kelvins_pics/sets/72157626784952719/

 

I'm stuck at work right now, but should have some details/pricing posted up in the next day or so. I'll post an ad in the classifieds and link to it in this thread once it's up.

 

Thanks,

Ryan

Nice... Just remember, no slip/twist joint ;)

 

Joel

Link to comment

I don't see a slip joint in the link to flickr account.

 

I do see SOADG say they are "telescoping" but if it is indeed a slip yoke setup is it something in the tubing creating a dampening effect, because I can't see it just moving freely without resistance. Or is it a means of adjusting length and once set it maintains its length?

 

For reference here is the post with pics by SOADG: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/40112-autocrossstreet-handling-72-510-wagon/page-2?do=findComment&comment=644473

 

If anything its the latter, but then you already have some adjustment with the rubber bushing end with threaded male stud--which is what I'm hoping will be enough adjustment with the male heimz.

Link to comment

there is nothing more than just two pieces of tub... one sliding inside the other. The concept is sounds and works when applied correctly but for reasons explained earlier, it's not compatible with this application. The bars need to be setup correctly and rigid, or you need a triangulated shackle similar to Cal Tracs design.

 

You can ask him for details and he will describe it the same... other than the fact he probably thinks it works ;) (the designer that is)

 

Joel

Link to comment

Dude! I never see you post, but I love your wagon! It was my inspiration when I first got my wagon. I often used it for doing my photoshops.

 

Ha... Thanks for that.  I rarely post, but lurk a lot.  Glad to know that my good was inspiration for your's.  I've followed your build thread closely and really love the look of it with those wheels.

Link to comment

I don't see a slip joint in the link to flickr account.

 

I do see SOADG say they are "telescoping" but if it is indeed a slip yoke setup is it something in the tubing creating a dampening effect, because I can't see it just moving freely without resistance. Or is it a means of adjusting length and once set it maintains its length?

 

For reference here is the post with pics by SOADG: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/40112-autocrossstreet-handling-72-510-wagon/page-2?do=findComment&comment=644473

 

If anything its the latter, but then you already have some adjustment with the rubber bushing end with threaded male stud--which is what I'm hoping will be enough adjustment with the male heimz.

 

Yeah, I'm not familiar with caltracs having a slip or telescoping joint and don't believe that's part of Kelvin's design.  The pics of the bars on the flickr link do not have that slip joint.  I'll double-check with Kelvin about what was done for SOADG's goon and respond back here.

Link to comment

It turns out that SOADG's traction bars are the current design.  The first set that Kelvin ever made/installed is what's listed on the Flickr page.  I have a response from Kelvin and a youtube video that he shared, but it's on my work email address/computer.  I'll reply back tomorrow with those details.

 

I'm also finalizing the information for the group buy with Kelvin and should have that up in the next few days.

Link to comment

The whole concept is based on the fact that the joint can twist inside itself to compensate for the twist of the axle during articulation. If it were a splined slip yoke it would defeat that purpose... but again, the entire application is lost in this case.

 

Joel

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.