BlueSue Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Im pretty certain Ive a blown head gasket on my 77 b210, as it overheated and has water in the oil :poop: . I want to get in there and see if the head is salvagable and i just need to replace the gasket, of if i have bigger problems. what i need to know is what types of tools do i need, and step by step, what exactly do i do? this is the first time ive ever attempted anything like this :confused: , so the more dumbed down the better :thumbup: I love this car and Im sure I can figure this out with a little help. thank you! 1 Quote Link to comment
KELMO Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Your best bet is to do a search on here, or datsun1200.com, or find a shop manual. If this is the first time you are doing a job like this, take your time and be well informed. If you don't own a torque wrench,,,,,go buy one, you're gonna need it. 1 Quote Link to comment
JAS Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Read instructions thoroughly before you start, its not diffcult, just don't mix up your head bolts, there is one specific one.... And torque in steps and pattern. Might as well drain all your fluids, their wasted anyway. Actually its much easier than an OHC rig.can be done in an hour by experienced people. Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 Yes, get a repair manual any of them for the B210 will cover this in detail. And it is the details that matter for a successful head gasket change. You need to buy or borrow a Torque Wrench, even a cheap one will work fine. Remember the details. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 23, 2012 Report Share Posted December 23, 2012 At the worst you will need the head shaved if it is warped. Again it's not the end of the world and only costs $30-$50. Many have a fly cut taken off when doing a gasket as cheap insurance.As David said it all in the details. The head and block surfaces have to be as clean as you can possibly get them. Bolt holes in the block should be cleaned out. Trapped dirt or old gasket material may cause the bolt to read the proper torque even though it's not fully clamping down on the head. Best, is a proper thread bottoming tap but you can use a spare head bolt and grind away threads lengthwise in 2 or 3 places. Wipe some grease on it and thread into the block. The threads will push dirt ahead of them and into the ground out space where it will be held by the grease. Here's a thermostat bolt I used to clean the threads, same idea. Repeat until the bolt comes out clean. Even a wire brush and compressed air is better than nothing. More effort = better results. Wire brush the threads on the head bolts and wipe with an oily rag to lube them. Undamaged headbolts in good shape are totally reusable. Put a drop of engine oil on top of the steel washer that's under the head bolt before torquing them. Follow the torque pattern, generally tightening the middle bolts first and working outward towards the ends of the head. Again, usually this pattern is done in 2 or 3 stages. For example, tightening them all in order to 20 ft lbs, then in order to 40 ft lbs and then to final torque. Follow the manual specifications. You can do this. 2 Quote Link to comment
BlueSue Posted December 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 my torque wrench is old, and flimsy looking. just a needle with thin metal number gage. is there any way these can go outta whack or is it probably fine? is there a way to test it before i rely on it or is that unnecissary? oh, i have 3 manuals, because they are all a little different. any brand in particular the best? by the way thank you. You guys are awesomly helpful :) Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 At rest the long pointer should rear at the O. If off just bend it till it does. These are hard to knock out of whack. It's the needle that doesn't move and it's the rest of the handle with the scale on it that bends from the torque applied. Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 That's what I use, an old torque wrench. The best manual is the Datsun factory service manual. But Clymer, Chilton or Haynes are almost as good. 1 Quote Link to comment
pwee4u2c Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Do you have an A12 or A14? Your best bet is to surface the head...you're gonna need a torque wrench, make a note of where you are pulling the head bolts out from. There is a special bolt that let's the oil flow Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 B210s never came with A12 engines. By the way, a good used A14 goes for about $200. Do not surface the head unless it is warped more than .0039 inch. That's nearly four thousandths of an inch. Blown head gaskets will not repeat if the preparation is good and it is properly torqued. From the Datsun factory service manual: The limit of head grinding is .0079 inch. So if it has been done once before, having it milled again may put the head out of specification. It's not "cheap insurance" instead it is a way for the machine shop to make money. Get the head milled if it needs it, otherwise it is wasted money. 1 Quote Link to comment
BlueSue Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Thanks for your suggestions. I picked up a manual and a torque wrench and got going. At this point, I am attempting to remove the carburator along with the intake and exhaust manifolds as one unit. To avoid loosening the bolts which attach the two manifolds together, I am trying to figure out which bolts actually attach them to the engine. Let me know if I'm wrong, but there should be four bolts which hold the manifolds to the engine. I located eight, and it appears as though some of them are also the bolts which attach the two together. Any help or suggestions? 1 Quote Link to comment
Dguy210 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 Pull the head first, check for flatness and then pull the manifolds only if you have to. Quote Link to comment
MikeRL411 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 my torque wrench is old, and flimsy looking. just a needle with thin metal number gage. is there any way these can go outta whack or is it probably fine? The beam type torque wrench is actually better than the dial-a=break type. As long as "Zero" is on spot when you look at the wrench out of the box all is OK. Basic physics rules! Torque equals Pounds force times distance from "pull" application to the bolt center. 1 Quote Link to comment
BlueSue Posted February 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 I can pull the head with the manifolds attached to it? And if it is flat then just replace the gasket? Here are the steps I have been following: 1) Drain fluids 2) Detach upper radiator hose and remove thermostat 3)) Remove air cleaner assembly 4) Remove rocker arm cover 5) Remove manifolds and carburator as one unit 6) loosen and remove head bolts in proper sequence 7) remove the head, check for flatness, mill if needed and replace the gasket. Let me know if any of these steps seem unnecessary, wrong, or perhaps I am missing something . Thanks again for all your advice and encouragement! 1 Quote Link to comment
Bentaxlebob Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 Follow the instructions on the manual about sequence when lossening bolts and when re assembling / tightening. It is not difficult but could become if you just dissassemble the head nonchalantly. I stringly suggest taking photos from the start, Once w/o valve cover, as you dissassemble it, and make a cardboard square box as if it where the cyl head, where you can leave all head bolts and pushrods. Pushrods, and head bolts should remain in their specific places so that is why it is important to note them. A mock cyl head out of cardboard ( like a shoe box) saves confusion and saves long explanations in writting. Do not mess with the cylinder head, just take it to a machine shop and they will do the right job. You will get it back all fixed up and ready for install. Get a new water pump, this is the right time to do so.( with new thermostat.). At that machine shop ask for the gasket kit for the head ( head gasket kit ) When you go back home with your head you will have everything you need for re assembling. Take your radiator to a rad shop for cleaning. You want to make sure it is free of gunk and crap. When you re start your motor, you need to make a first oil change after letting it iddle for about 5 minutes to rid your motor of any water and gunk residue. Then change oil a second time after 2 days. That will rid your motor of any water . Also fill your car with distilled water ( rad ) and change the water after first warm up ( together with first oil change. You can get distilled water at any Walgreens, Vons, / market of pharmacy like Savon. The refill it with distilled water and change the water again after 2 days with again distilled water and antifreeze. Using distilled water is the way to go. Regular water has minerals that clog your rad and create salts and minerals. Use a torque wrench to adjust your bolts to specs ( as per manual book.) Sears has good non expensive torque wrenches. Remember to re adjust your cylinder head bolts after 500 miles of driving. That is a must. Many cylinder head jobs go bad because of not re torquing head after 500 miles. Quote Link to comment
BlueSue Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 I know this is taking me awhile, but I am new at this. My only experience is oil changes and brakes, so I appreciate all your help. I have a new problem: I messed up and removed the head bolts before the pushrods! How bad is this and what should I do next? if I can just get the head off of there... Quote Link to comment
izzo Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 You're fine man. I just did this two days ago... Gently lift the head up so that you don't knock the push rods out of the block or bend them. Then pull one out at a time, clean well, mark which one it is. I went from front to back, cleaned one at a time and then put a piece of yellow electrical tape on it, and marked it 1 through 8... Good to go when I goto re-install them. You will need to get a 12mm wrench and loosen the adjusters for the push rods before you put it back on. Once the head is back on and torqued down to specs, just adjust your valves.. Good to go. Valve Adjustment. http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Valve_adjustment Changing head gasket http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=Changing_Head_Gasket Those guides will help you... Pics from mine. I am waiting on a push rod and head bolt to finish this up. 1 Quote Link to comment
king bee66 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 i just replied to his other thread having not known he doubled up. but you win izzo, because you brought pictures Quote Link to comment
KELMO Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 If you are going to remove the head with the push rods still in place.....be careful. The push rods could come up with the head and before you know it they are lying on the floor all mixed up. If you can loosen the adjuster nuts on the rocker shaft enough to pull the push rods out before removing the head, I would go that route. Quote Link to comment
BlueSue Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 You wont believe this! I didn't check the forum today before working on the car and, yep, I did just that. I was carefully lifting the head off and next thing you know...the pushrods are all on the floor! Is this the end of the world or what? Also, the head gasket looks fine! I don't know what a blown head gasket looks like but this one seems intact, and there isn't really anything to clean up...however there was quite a bit of water in the block (cylinders/ pistons )and some spilled out of the head. There was a little rust on the surface of the block but not much. I remember the manual saying to use a breaker bar to loosen the head bolts, and I certainly didn't need one. I practically used my fingers to loosen them. Is it posssible that loose head bolts could that be the cause of the leakage from the rear part of the engine which I thought was a blown head gasket? There was water in the oil which I thought was a sure sign of blown head gasket. Is there supposed to be water in the engine like I described? Quote Link to comment
TENDRIL Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 no there should never be water in the cyls., how did you notice in the first place? excessive smoke? dripping from the engine bay? Quote Link to comment
BlueSue Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 radiator hose blew, major overheating occured. I replaced the hose and filled it with coolant/water, started it up and it leaked heavily out the back of the engine. I'm trying to figure out how to post a pic of the gasket for help evaluating it's condition. Quote Link to comment
king bee66 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 blown gaskets arent always easy to make out if you dont know what youre looking for. its not really likely you cracked an a series block unless you tried cooling the motor down with snowcones while it wasnt running Quote Link to comment
BlueSue Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 In another thread, there was advice to always tighten the head bolts to proper torque when you get a datsun. The head bolts were definitely already loose, and I'm wondering if they loosened up when it overheated and if that would cause the water/coolant to leak and also explain why it sounded like crap when I started it up after replacing the blown hose. What do you think? Quote Link to comment
BlueSue Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 No snow cones, but the car wasn't running. I waited about an hour until it cooled down and added some water only to find it come out the other side. Quote Link to comment
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