Single side draft vs down draft

[metalmonkey47]

Okay, so I've had someone approach me on another forum that's offered to sell me a Canon side draft single carb manifold (I'm assuming for the Weber/Mikuni's) and I'm just purely curious because I've seen the setup before, but is there any real upgrade with a Weber 40 over the 32/36?

 

I know there's a pretty reasonable drop in fuel efficiency, but my commute is so short I probably wouldn't notice.

 

 

I guess what i really want to know is, would it be worth the cost of a single side draft and are there any real big down sides to a single side draft?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Laecaon]

Side drafts dont have the air make a 90 degree bend...

 

Buy my SUs... :ninja:

[metalmonkey47]

Side drafts dont have the air make a 90 degree bend...

 

Buy my SUs... :ninja:

 

ZOMG LOGIC

 

 

Considered it seriously, but I don't really have the money at the moment. Unless I sell off what's currently in my PM's :ninja:

[Dat Lurka]

solexsex bro

They made mah U20 fly. Probably do the same for an L20b.

Plus I think they're cheaper.

Webers cost more than my car(s)

[metalmonkey47]

solexsex bro

They made mah U20 fly. Probably do the same for an L20b.

Plus I think they're cheaper.

Webers cost more than my car(s)

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Weber-45-DCOE-Carburetor-45-DCOE-European-Weber-Carb-/251123421441?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a781f5101&vxp=mtr

 

Hell to the noooo :P

 

Always had good luck with Webers, although $$$ talks. There's a nice old man around here that has a stack of Mikuni's that he's been talking about selling. Wonder if he'd part the stack

[Dat Lurka]

I need sidedraft to do my drawthrough turbo.

Nice and simple.

If you do go sidedraft. Let me get yo weber.

[chester]

I just had a buddy put a delordo 40mm or however you spell it on his stock l16 that had a 32/36 and he said that it was night and day difference. The only problem he said is you have to be on it or not there is no happy middle. He isn't the first one that has told me that. The best way it was described to me was "it's like an on/off switch" I say do and then I can be jelly.

[Skib]

side draft > down draft

[metalmonkey47]

I just had a buddy put a delordo 40mm or however you spell it on his stock l16 that had a 32/36 and he said that it was night and day difference. The only problem he said is you have to be on it or not there is no happy middle. He isn't the first one that has told me that. The best way it was described to me was "it's like an on/off switch" I say do and then I can be jelly.

 

Thanks for posting that. Glad to hear someone else saw a nice difference. As long as it has decent midrange power I'm not TOO worried. I don't mind dropping a gear and taking off.

 

 

 

side draft > down draft

 

 

True story. Never worked on or owned side drafts (other then motorcycle)

 

 

Skib, I'm sure you've worked on Weber DCOE's before... are there functioning chokes? That's really my only concern.

[ggzilla]

is there any real upgrade with a Weber 40 over the 32/36?

Depends on the venturi size. Weber 40 DCOE may have small venturi (which will flow less than a 32/36) or large venturi which is a big upgrade.

 

I know there's a pretty reasonable drop in fuel efficiency

If tuned correctly the DCOE should give better fuel economy than the 32/36

 

The only problem he said is you have to be on it or not there is no happy middle. He isn't the first one that has told me that.

Yes, many are not tuned correctly, have the wrong jets, air bleeds, wrong venturi size and incorrect accelerator pump settings. But when tuned properly it will run an 1600 perfectly.

[Dime Dave]

It is easy to over carb a small engine with a DCOE. 34mm chokes or smaller would be a good start. Also the #1 & #4 cylinders tend to run leaner with most single sidedraft manifolds. I'd use it on nothing smaller than an L20B for street.

 

If you use a 32/36 mount it on a plate type adapter. The thicker, open plenum type adapters kill mid range drivability. Plenum type manifolds are all about top end. I learned this on air cooled Bugs years ago.

[Dime Dave]

The problem using a side draft is most are not generally set-up for smaller displacement, street use engines. They can be tuned, but the parts start costing a ton when you are replacing main venturis, secondary venturies, air correct and main jets.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

If you do decide to run the single side draft, run a balance tube between the two pairs of runners. This help balance out the pulses for better idle. I don't know if the Cannon manifold is drilled internally, some of the manifolds out there are.

 

I personally would run the DGV. And more plenum on a L motor is not a bad thing.

[72240z]

Sound advice here from what I have read.

 

For chokes (enrichment circuits really) if you have a properly tuned dcoe you shouldnt need them. My z is running webers where they go the other way so I have yet to hook them up and it still starts every time. Even sat morning it was in the 30s here and it started up 1st try. Sometimes it may need like 10sec of babying and its always good to give like 3 fast pumps before starting but thats it. That said I will hook mine up at some point. It may not NEED them but having them is sweet, the engine starts like a FI one would, fast and easy.

 

also a single dcoe doesnt have that expensive to buy or tune even when having to replace parts. Pick up a grimy single and paint/rebuilt it, dirt cheap way to go. Then only needing 2 of everything to tune, vs 4 or 6 or even 8 its comparatively much cheaper. Easier too, only needing 2 you could prob scrounge around asking and find what you need again on the cheap.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Sound advice here from what I have read.

 

For chokes (enrichment circuits really) if you have a properly tuned dcoe you shouldnt need them. My z is running webers where they go the other way so I have yet to hook them up and it still starts every time. Even sat morning it was in the 30s here and it started up 1st try. Sometimes it may need like 10sec of babying and its always good to give like 3 fast pumps before starting but thats it. That said I will hook mine up at some point. It may not NEED them but having them is sweet, the engine starts like a FI one would, fast and easy.

 

also a single dcoe doesnt have that expensive to buy or tune even when having to replace parts. Pick up a grimy single and paint/rebuilt it, dirt cheap way to go. Then only needing 2 of everything to tune, vs 4 or 6 or even 8 its comparatively much cheaper. Easier too, only needing 2 you could prob scrounge around asking and find what you need again on the cheap.

 

I think he was referring to the venturis (also called chokes).

[ggzilla]

A weber won't work without venturis. You don't need a cold enrichment device except when it's cold. Even in Alaska you don't need a choke after the engine warms up. But choke helps the engine when cold even in California. But you don't need them.

 

A have 40mm sidedrafts on my 1491cc engine. Runs good on the street, is tractable and responsive. Definitely not on/off.

[72240z]

Oh really? I thought because he was asking about functional ones it was in ref to the enrichment circuits. Isn't a venturi always functional so long as air is passing through? :blink:

Well in any event more info on the topic, cant hurt.

 

Last sat was the coldest I have started without, it was like 34ish. I think the proper tune is more imp then the enrichment circuit all said and done. With 45f9 idles I would even on a warm day have to baby the throttle for a few to get it to idle on its own. Was kind of annoying. Now with 55f9's it starts right up even ice cold and idles. Think I'm running 30mm venturis, could be wrong though.

[67411sss]

The carb in your pic is for a toyota meaning it goes on the other side of the engine as apposed to the L series so you will have problems with the choke, it will push away from the firewall instead of pulling it towards you. I've heard you can flip the inside components to remedy the problem but then there is the problem of the top gasket that isn't available anymore. Personally i would stay away from the T type carb . How much are they asking? i wouldn't pay more than $150 for that set up depending on condition. 2 cents worth.

[metalmonkey47]

Thanks for the input guys :thumbup: All of it is noted, and I likely WILL be doing it!

 

The pictures just generic ;) The guy offered me the manifold for $100 so I'm gonna go get it :ninja:

[Dat Lurka]

Thanks for the input guys :thumbup: All of it is noted, and I likely WILL be doing it!

 

The pictures just generic ;) The guy offered me the manifold for $100 so I'm gonna go get it :ninja:

 

Including this part right?

 

If you do go sidedraft. Let me get yo weber.

 

:poke:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:rofl:

[metalmonkey47]

We'll see man :thumbup: Won't be for a few months.

 

 

 

 

Any suggestions on the carb? DCOE 40? 44? 50?

 

I plan on putting in a larger cam at some point, and already have my eyes on one (unknown grind) I just don't want to limit myself. I'm aiming for 150HP in the long run.

[ggzilla]

40 mm DCOE (single or dual) can provide 150HP no problem. Just depends on which size venturis are fitted.