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demo243

Red 71 4dr - Carbed KA24DE

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@demo243, what tires are you running in that last pic? When I get the 510 out on the road next year I want to have that stance.

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3 hours ago, grannyknot said:

@demo243, what tires are you running in that last pic? When I get the 510 out on the road next year I want to have that stance.


dropped another 2 turns on the front coil overs today, maybe a couple more to come...

 

49900017017_9d2e89267d_b.jpg

 

@grannyknot  running 205/50r15 Falken Azenis on 15x7 +25 Rota RBs with a 10mm spacer and longer wheel studs on the front, stock 510 struts and axles. The Falkens run wide, but look mean from the front. Debating between the falkens again or the Dunlop direzza IIIs or DZ102s next since these are getting old. The falkens do get hard when cold and spin easily before they have warmed up.

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Gotta put it out there... I’ve been driving the Orange Whip 620 a lot recently... but...

 

DAMN this car is fun to drive. Need to get it back out on the track or AutoX before I get in trouble...🚔...

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Well... can’t drop the front any more... I could squeeze out one more turn on the coil overs, but the spring perch is really close to the tire... 2 turns and it’s hitting the tire.

 

 

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On 5/16/2020 at 5:44 PM, demo243 said:

Well... can’t drop the front any more... I could squeeze out one more turn on the coil overs, but the spring perch is really close to the tire... 2 turns and it’s hitting the tire.

 

Get a shorter spring.  😁

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33 minutes ago, datsunfreak said:

 

Get a shorter spring.  😁


On my list to check out.... just don’t feel like pulling it all apart right now either...

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17 hours ago, demo243 said:

just don’t feel like pulling it all apart right now either...

 

Hey, pimpin' ain't easy...   😁

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Not sure whether to post this in my 620 thread or here since I am thinking about carb'ing the truck... but since this is the car that is carb'ed already, and if there is a big performance gain it would end up on this car, Ill post it here...

 

Its more of an info dump for future reference... but also a thought on possible bigger carb options for this car.

 

Gone down a bit of a rabbit hole in the last 24 hours on other carb options. Mikuni PHH carbs are getting harder to find... and you can still get OER Carbs new from Japan... but was curious what else is out there... 

 

Saw in another thread on here about using Mikuni Bike Carbs - In particular the HSRs - which are available in a 45 and 48mm. 

http://www.mikunipower.com/HSR01.htm

 

Some info on them here --- although FYI it sounds like this guy stiff'ed a number of people... 

http://www.v-performance.com/products/air_fuel.html

 

Some quick rough measurements and it looks like the rubber mounting bracket for the HSR 45s should bolt up directly to a Weber DCOE/Mikuni PHH compatible manifold --- and the 48's might bolt directly to my other manifold with the Nissan rubber isolators.

There is also the possibility of running Keihin's as big as 51mm which could be a great alternative to a set of VERY expensive Mikuni PHH50s... 

I know there are a few other threads on here about these, but not to much out there in terms of running them on Cars... Did see a few draw through turbo/supercharger set ups which could be interesting.... 

Anyway... rambling a bit... 

Cost of the HSRs seems to be pretty similar to buying a set of OERs from Japan, so may not be worth pursuing... but an interesting Idea to keep a Mikuni product on the car. 

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Just some more food for thought ... and poor $$$$ decisions....

 

Basic premise of it all...

 

Mikuni HSR - Replacement for Sidedraft?


Here are the mounts for an HSR45 and HSR48

 

s-l1600

 

s-l1600 2


and some quick measurements of my spare KA24DE

 

Sorry upside down... but outside bolt spacing is ~90mm

 

49950433027_b996b6d49d_b.jpg

 

68mm inner

 

49950433022_2429b4bb75_b.jpg

 

runner inner diameter 

 

49950140151_a2f202c1bc_b.jpg


sooo... the next big question becomes sizing....

 

looking at vperformance, they compared HSR45s to Weber 50s.... but what about HSR48s... too big? Gotta do some more research.

 

@Duke you ever think about bigger carbs then 44phhs? These seem to flow fine, so without major mods, ie big cams and high comp... it might not be worth it.

 

just covid boredom inspiring some thinking and potentially poor decisions...

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I mulled over carbs and induction a ton in the past.  I initially ran 40mm PHH's on my KA because that is what came with the engine when I purchased it.  When I acquired the 44's that are currently on it I sent them to Wolf Creek Racing for a rebuild and initial jetting.  I spoke to Todd a bunch about jetting, venturi sizing, my intended usage, etc and he set up the carbs to suit this.  Since doing this they have been pretty much flawless, minus the issue of the float bowls overfilling under high G loads.  I think that for how I use my car, anything bigger than 44's would have a negative impact on throttle response, which is something that I don't want to give up.

 

If I were to change my induction setup (and I don't plan on it for a while at least), I think I would make the jump to ITB's.  The cost of ITB's and EFI vs. new, larger carbs is pretty even, especially with how affordable and user friendly standalone ECU's have become in the last few years.  Also, I bet you could make more ultimate power with ITB's than with carbs, with the added plus of easier tuning and better drivablity.

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22 minutes ago, Duke said:

I mulled over carbs and induction a ton in the past.  I initially ran 40mm PHH's on my KA because that is what came with the engine when I purchased it.  When I acquired the 44's that are currently on it I sent them to Wolf Creek Racing for a rebuild and initial jetting.  I spoke to Todd a bunch about jetting, venturi sizing, my intended usage, etc and he set up the carbs to suit this.  Since doing this they have been pretty much flawless, minus the issue of the float bowls overfilling under high G loads.  I think that for how I use my car, anything bigger than 44's would have a negative impact on throttle response, which is something that I don't want to give up.

 

If I were to change my induction setup (and I don't plan on it for a while at least), I think I would make the jump to ITB's.  The cost of ITB's and EFI vs. new, larger carbs is pretty even, especially with how affordable and user friendly standalone ECU's have become in the last few years.  Also, I bet you could make more ultimate power with ITB's than with carbs, with the added plus of easier tuning and better drivablity.


Todd was a great resource. I got my Mikunis from him originally and he was able to jet the correctly for my L20b based on some guess work by me hahah pretty incredible !!!

 

yea the 44s seem to match the engine well. And I think you have a bigger cam set up since I’m still on stock cams. 
 

Definitely wouldn’t want to give up the awesome low end grunt and responsiveness of this set up!

 

just curious....

 

i think your right ultimately itbs and efi would be the ultimate performance set up with the ability to tune everything exactly where you want it... I still like the idea of carbs on these old cars... although bike carbs are newer... so your kinda blending the two...

 

anyway good info!

 

 

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Also

 

got bored this afternoon so I pulled my 4.44 out of the basement. When I swapped to the KA I swapped the 4.11 back in, both figuring it might fit the “car” better and cause the 4.44 lsd was breaking away really easily.

 

pulled it apart to put a shim in it and tighten it up.

 

49953837342_67dc783386_b.jpg

 

definitely some of wear in these clutches...

 

49953837307_442bbba13e_b.jpg


made a thicker shim and bolted it back together... but I may have gone too thick... my vise moves before I can get the diff to break loose hahhahah 

 

will probably just throw it back together and in the car anyway to see how it is... I suspect it will be really buzzy on the highway but well see

 

also added a brace to the wink mirror to try and support it and keep it from vibrating so much 

 

49953052238_f71fe6bfe5_b.jpg


 

49953837317_32c97010a2_b.jpg


 

if it works I might trade the 3m adhesive for a bolt.

 

only downfall will be night driving and not being able to angle the mirror up to divert headlights...

well see...

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Decided to do the right thing, pulled the center unit and made two thinner shims. 
 

The one I made yes came in around 1.3mm, the two I put in today came in a little under .5mm each so ~1mm shim, which allowed it to slip with some decent force- my guess is about 50-60ft lbs.

 

spent some time swapping it in and went for a rip.

 

4.44 are definitely quick... and zippy... about 4K @ 80 mph ... 

 

also the shimmed  LSD works! Maybe too well... will easily step side ways in 2nd and 3rd.... made for an interesting on ramp experience.

 

Definitely time for some new sticky tires... and probably time to bite the bullet and get a rear adjustable rear crossmember— mines slotted, but would like to have the proper brackets...— between the rear camber since lowering it more, the old tires and the LSD it’s a bit tail happy

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Nothing to exciting to update yet... but decided to finally pull the trigger and give the 510 a bit more love. Ordered all the moog parts to refresh the steering linkage - New tie rods, ball joints, TC bushings and LCA bushings, delrin idler arm. Also order some shorter 6" springs with a helper spring to raise the front coilover perches back up above the tire to allow for a little more front drop. Might pull the trigger on some QA1 rear coilovers soon too.. Oh yea also ordered some 1/8" black ABS plastic sheets to make some door cards out of. 

 

Expect some more updates soon!

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Check the idler kit as soon as you get it!  I've heard that some of the aftermarket idler assemblies that were available, were slightly different casting & the bushing kits don't fit.

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24 minutes ago, yenpit said:

Check the idler kit as soon as you get it!  I've heard that some of the aftermarket idler assemblies that were available, were slightly different casting & the bushing kits don't fit.


I read about that- I’m pretty sure it’s the stock arm on the car, so it wouldn’t be a problem... decided to just get the full pre-installed version from Troy Ermish. I’ll keep the one that currently on the car in my parts stash, just in case I should ever need it...

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So I think its time to upgrade to coilovers in the rear--- QA1 seems like the way to go--- but thinking about going it a bit different...

Posted a thread on therealm since they seem to be pretty technical over there-

http://the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=32839

 

To paraphase---

 

General consensus is to use the current DS602 Proma Star body - 18.75" extended 12.5" compressed with a 14" coil spring and the upper mounting adapters. But Ive read and had a couple conversations about a few people wishing they had gone shorter... This pulls in the QA1 DS502 - which moves to a 17" extended length and 11.625" compressed.  I am wondering if this might be a better option for a low car, despite having less travel in the shock. Basiclly trying to avoid just wasting shock travel on droop--- and actually limit the amount of droop the rear set up has. 

 

I currently run 350s up front, and plan to run those in the rear. 

 

The rear Bilsteins currently on the car measured ~ 21 extended, 13.5" Compressed which leaves about 7.5" of travel. While the car was up I took a measurement from the lower edge of the wheel lip up to the lower edge of the fender right at the seam. At Full Droop the gap was 8". Once down at ride height the gap was 3". So of the ~7" of travel I used 3 of it just getting/compressing the springs to ride height. This would leave ~ 2 of shock travel--- actual travel to bumpstops I believe is about 1" roughly... those are trimmed but not miniscule. With those measurements in mind--- the DS502 might actually suit the car better. No matter what shock with a~350 spring at my ride height there is only going to be ~ 2" of compression left so the 5.375" would be enough and the much shorter length would eliminate unneeded droop from the system.

 

---

 

Also thinking about replacing the front inserts while I have the front struts apart to swap to a shorter spring and add a helper spring - 

 

For the fronts I have two sets of shortened 510 struts. One set on the car and one set off. The set on the car measures ~16.5" from the bottom of the complete assembly to the top of the threads. The set off the car comes in at 15.25". The tube itself on the set off the car measures 13" exactly which rough math puts the set on the car ~ 13.75".  Looks like Koni's are probably the best bet --- so It looks like there is a set of Koni Race inserts I can use--- or I can do some digging and find some sports. That would fit--- Ultimately I guess the question is with the strut shorted to 16.5" (13.75 tube length) is there any chance of bottoming the strut out before I bottom the suspension out?

Might have to start another thread or post in one of the suspension threads on this all.... 

 

-----------
Some rough measurements for reference

 

50038676221_13c959c9ce_b.jpg

 

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Finally got the time today to tear about the driver side rear end and do some measuring - I assume this would apply to most any 510 running a stock rear cross member and trailing arms. Ultimately it seems like I was just over thinking everything... and the general consensus for the DS602 would be correct. Measurement from the underside of the shock mount to the center of the lower mount at full compression - trailing arm against the body is 13.5" - so no reason to go with a ds502 as I would just be leaving more travel unused. As it is the DS602 will have 6" of travel, but only 5 are usable as it is 1" shorter at full compression (12.5"). A DS502 would leave 2" of unusable travel, meaning you would only have about 3.5" of usable travel.

Also for anyone who is curious a 15x7 +25 w/ a 205/50 tire is a near perfect fit for the rear of a 4 door. I was able to almost fully compress the rear end ~5mm left with out any rubbing, at full compression with the trailing arm against the body there was just a slight rub somewhere, but not enough to stop the tire. Good to know.

Any way some photos for reference. 
 

50051433726_6011a7a660_k.jpgUntitled by D M, on Flickr

 

50051693612_5b0ecadfac_k.jpgUntitled by D M, on Flickr

 

50050872758_9bb6ca3389_k.jpgUntitled by D M, on Flickr

 

Sounds like the DS602 with a 12" spring is the way to go. 

 

Planning on sticking with the 350s front and rear moving forward so it looks like I'll have to pony up for the Koni Race Inserts - which should fit pretty nicely in my spare struts with a small spacer, they are cleanly shortened and measure 13.5" inside from the bottom to the bottom of the threads. 

 

50051443346_1cd79845bf_k.jpgUntitled by D M, on Flickr

 

50050876783_edc487d37d_k.jpgUntitled by D M, on Flickr

 

Also got most of my parts for the front end rebuild - just waiting on the tie rods and center link + idler arm from Troy Ermish (actually need to reach out to him as I haven't gotten a shipping confirmation yet... 

 

50051693617_96af3f8fac_k.jpgUntitled by D M, on Flickr

 

Also order some black plastic sheets to hopefully make some fresh door cards out of - more to come on those - now I just need to find some nice armrest/pulls or order up some simple webbing ones.

 

Just a photo of the two dattos to leave it off...

 

50051697217_2e2795ba6e_k.jpgUntitled by D M, on Flickr

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Still amassing parts for the suspension and steering rebuild. Idler arm and cross link should show up tomorrow, waiting on one LCA bushing. Koni front inserts should ship this week hopefully, and will probably order the QA1s for the rear tomorrow.

 

In the meantime I got started on another project. The front door cards have always had speaker holes in them and overall they all just weren’t in great shape. T3s are nice, but expensive... decided to try my hand at some myself.

 

picked up some 1/8” abs plastic sheet

 

50081393962_7ea8cb78da_b.jpg


Traces the outline

 

50081145321_1945c0b2b3_b.jpg

 

Scored it with a razor about half way through and then bent it to snap it off

 

50081393942_76e14bdedb_b.jpg

 

Cut/drilled some holes and mounted it up 

 

50081145346_46abc6d5f5_b.jpg

 

still need some more screws to secure it. My door pull/armrests were in rough shape, but there are threads spaced perfectly for the rear pulls up front too (the two silver screws up top) so going to just run those to clean it up and keep it simple. Never used the arm rest any way... need a new door handle for the drive side too since the plastic is breaking off.

 

Almost finished the rear driver as well - just needs mounting screws

 

50081393927_1af5a900d8_b.jpg

 

Should have a few big scrap panels too so I think I’ll cut some kick panels too.

 

50081145366_6333a5c9ed_b.jpg

 

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Where did you pick up the sheets of abs?

And if you dont mind me asking how much were they? 

Door cards and kick panels have been on my too do list but just never got to it..

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50 minutes ago, Crashtd420 said:

Where did you pick up the sheets of abs?

And if you dont mind me asking how much were they? 

Door cards and kick panels have been on my too do list but just never got to it..


Eplastics.com

 

24x48 abs sheets were $17 each... but about $10 each to ship...

 

i found a place that had cheaper shipping but their order processing wasn’t working and I didn’t feel like calling...

Edited by demo243
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On 6/27/2020 at 4:33 PM, demo243 said:

 

Finally got the time today to tear about the driver side rear end and do some measuring - I assume this would apply to most any 510 running a stock rear cross member and trailing arms. Ultimately it seems like I was just over thinking everything... and the general consensus for the DS602 would be correct. Measurement from the underside of the shock mount to the center of the lower mount at full compression - trailing arm against the body is 13.5" - so no reason to go with a ds502 as I would just be leaving more travel unused. As it is the DS602 will have 6" of travel, but only 5 are usable as it is 1" shorter at full compression (12.5"). A DS502 would leave 2" of unusable travel, meaning you would only have about 3.5" of usable travel.

Also for anyone who is curious a 15x7 +25 w/ a 205/50 tire is a near perfect fit for the rear of a 4 door. I was able to almost fully compress the rear end ~5mm left with out any rubbing, at full compression with the trailing arm against the body there was just a slight rub somewhere, but not enough to stop the tire. Good to know.

Any way some photos for reference. 
 

50051433726_6011a7a660_k.jpgUntitled by D M, on Flickr

 

50051693612_5b0ecadfac_k.jpgUntitled by D M, on Flickr

 

50050872758_9bb6ca3389_k.jpgUntitled by D M, on Flickr

 

Sounds like the DS602 with a 12" spring is the way to go. 

 

 

 

Maybe I missed it if you commented earlier.  Why the 12" spring?  I noticed looking at the DS602 on Speedway that the info states a 14" spring.  Will you potentially have some looseness under full droop?  I am interested in doing this same thing as well, so following this.  

 

Thanks.

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7 minutes ago, iceman510 said:

 

Maybe I missed it if you commented earlier.  Why the 12" spring?  I noticed looking at the DS602 on Speedway that the info states a 14" spring.  Will you potentially have some looseness under full droop?  I am interested in doing this same thing as well, so following this.  

 

Thanks.

 

A few people recommend going with the 12" spring- my guess is to get enough drop- the 14" spring probably doesnt allow you to go low enough.  I am hoping I don't run into loose springs at droop, but if I do Ill probably do the same thing I am planning for my front coilovers and run a helper spring. 

 

Ordered the QA1s this morning so I should hopefully have them installed in the next week or so. 

 

 

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