Nissans answer to the RBZ

[flatcat19]

[72240z]

Sure they still make straight six, no turbo, RWD

 

2012 BMW 128i Coupe

2012 BMW 328i Coupe

2012 BMW Z4 35i

 

I didnt say they didnt still make inline 6 cars lol but you said "ultimate driving machine". I listed the 1 series, the 328i is just a luxury car with an inline 6 nothing special. I should have listed the z series though thats a def qualifier. That aside my point was to me and most people (like BMW itself) it would seem the M series defines bmw performance, and all 6 of their current line is v8. Think that says something.....

 

The bmw 850 in the pic should count twice its 2 I6's! lol What a bad ass car. What a maintenance nightmare too though ugh. What I have rightfully charged people to work on that car.

[datzenmike]

I'm not saying we gave them the plans to build the 240z car, but I am saying we ended the war with horrific acts (granted justified at the time) and then gave them quite a bit of help and technology that we may not have used. But you give someone an inch, particularly when they see it as a matter of national pride to best who had previously bested them, and that will make one hell of a motivational factor. Hence, why they kicked ass on a lot of things automotive moreso than we did.

 

I think it's the Japanese simply being perfectionists at everything they do. Doing better with less.

[ggzilla]

The ultimate driving machine is typically straight-six, RWD (go and look at BMW history). The Ms are their Performance models and the new Ms keep trying different formulas.

 

I don't think the BMW 850 looks much like Clown Shoe.

 

The US goverment gave the Japan auto industry $2 billion dollars and taught them lean production. Part of the investment that has kept them as allies to this day.

[merlin]

Mike kinda hit the nail on the Head... the one thing Japanese industry really did well that American industry didn't was to adopt very methodical "Quality Control " procedures... Deming's Principles after W. Edward Deming... Nissan won the Deming Prize in 59 It was a huge industry honour in Japan.

 

wiki

 

Work in Japan

In 1947, Deming was involved in early planning for the 1951 Japanese Census. The Allied powers were occupying Japan, and he was asked by the United States Department of the Army to assist with the census. While in Japan, Deming's expertise in quality control techniques, combined with his involvement in Japanese society, led to his receiving an invitation from the Japanese Union of Scientists and Engineers (JUSE).^[6]

JUSE members had studied Shewhart's techniques, and as part of Japan's reconstruction efforts, they sought an expert to teach statistical control. From June–August 1950, Deming trained hundreds of engineers, managers, and scholars in statistical process control (SPC) and concepts of quality. He also conducted at least one session for top management.(The list includes top Japanese industrialists the likes of Akio Morita, the cofounder of Sony Corp)^[13] Deming's message to Japan's chief executives: improving quality will reduce expenses while increasing productivity and market share.^[1] Perhaps the best known of these management lectures was delivered at the Mt. Hakone Conference Center in August 1950.

A number of Japanese manufacturers applied his techniques widely and experienced heretofore unheard-of levels of quality and productivity. The improved quality combined with the lowered cost created new international demand for Japanese products.

Deming declined to receive royalties from the transcripts of his 1950 lectures, so JUSE's board of directors established the Deming Prize (December 1950) to repay him for his friendship and kindness.^[13] Within Japan, the Deming Prize continues to exert considerable influence on the disciplines of quality control and quality management.^[14]

[datzenmike]

My B-210 was like a 'Swiss watch'.... intricate yet simple, and certainly very elegant in design and function.

 

When GM was asked where are the 4 cylinder cars with good mileage we really want, they went.. "Oh yeah, we made this for you. (grumble grumble) You should be thankful we found the time to throw something together as we're very busy building pushrod V8s" Shoves Vega and Astra towards us.

 

Does it get good mileage? "Sure, over 25 MPG". But my Datsun gets 35 all the time and over 40 on trips. "Oh, well then, it gets 38MPG". Really??? "Yeah we did the math and that's what the revised estimate was".

 

How come the Vega motors wear out and burn oil at 20K??? "Who said that???"

[ggzilla]

yet the Vega was a great car, fun to drive, and looked great. The problems were not quality control, but design flaws. Ironically it was designed to eliminate rust, but actually rusted faster than others due design flaws. Ditto for the alloy block.

 

DeLorean said GM american engineers created a very good subcompact around 1968, but GM executives said forget that we executives have designed the Vega and that's what we will sell! American buyers liked it and bought millions of Vegas. Ditto for Pintos. Not bad little cars, except that the Datsuns and Toyodas were better as people found out over time.