Tire wear and alignment question on lowered 280zx struts.

[Dguy210]

So these are older tires that came with the rims, but they wore out extremely fast. I looked at the tires/rims I had on there previously and noticed a similar but milder wear pattern, however they only sat on the 280zx struts for a short time. Unfortunately I do not have any before pics of the tires in case they had any similar asymmetric wear.

 

I'm running 280zx struts with relatively mildly cut B210 springs.

 

Maybe 2 years prior to the strut swap I rebuilt the front end. At that time I was not noticing any unusually tire wire. Car tracks straight and otherwise drives great.

 

What I am trying to figure out is what to go after for adjustment. Is this extreme toe in? Or just positive camber? What should I be looking for to adjust to slow the tire wear?This sort of surprised me when I noticed it as I thought the tires had more remaining tread. I'm not driving the car until I swap back to the old rims. I want to get new tires, but I don't want them wearing out super fast either.

 

Passenger side

 

Driver side

[datzenmike]

Could be toe in or positive camber. It might also track straight and still have a problem.

 

Camber... park on a level surface and use a magnetic torpedo level. Clip it to the rim vertically (steel rims only) and see if the rim is 90 to the ground.

 

Toe.......... park and have someone turn the front wheel while you look down the sidewalls to the rear tire. Line one side up and go look at the other. It may be pointing inward or outward at the rear tire. Inward, meaning the fronts are toed out, is totally out to lunch. A very small toe in is OK.

 

 

 

I leveled the car and bolted spare rims on then set the car down on the rims. Taped string to the back side of the rim and went out 50-60 feet and swung the string over until it just touches the front edge of the rim. Did the same on the other side.

 

Measure width just in front of the bumper and at 50 feet out. If parallel they would be the same. They weren't... the front was 8" wider than the back... extreme toe out. Loosened the tie rod locking nuts and adjusted until about 1 1/2" to 2" narrower out front. This gives a slight toe in. Be sure to bounce front to stabilize the steering.

 

The difference in driving is nothing short of amazing! The car was stable and tracked straight down the road, (probably because the toe out tires just cancelled each other out) but steering was too light, like power steering. Steering input would turn the car but felt vague. After adjustment steering had more feedback from the road. There was a comfortable resistance, but not at all overly stiff, when turning the wheel and it was easier to judge how hard the car was working to make a turn. The car also centered itself faster after a turn.

 

 

Neighbor: "What's he doing now???"

 

 

 

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When I got my 620 it would dart into the oncoming lane if the driver's side tire hit a puddle. When turning sharply, like into a driveway, the turn begins ok, but as the wheel is turned it becomes easier and easier and almost wants to spin over out of your hands. I checked the alignment like above and if I stood in the ditch across the street the two front wheels were pointing directly at me.!!!

[bananahamuck]

When i rebuilt the front end of one of our Dodge caravans , i replaced everything even the bearing hubs and lower a arms, ,,and it would eat tires from 70% to what yours look like in less than 200 miles..And it looked like yours in that,, one ate faster than the other side..,, Camber can also cause it so don`t rule that out but the vans is non adjustable .. I take mine to an independent alignment shop ,, so i can discuss what im looking for rather than a Les Schwab that tells you what your going to get..

 

the only thing that was changeable at the alignment place was the toe and that fixed it for me.

[datzenmike]

The camber isn't adjustable on Datsun cars with struts. Camber is designed in to the body and after market camber plates or adjustable LCAs will be needed.

[The Dat-side]

It's gotta be toe. My driver side has positive more camber than the passenger, but the passenger has worse wear. Just like yours. And I def have toe out!

[Laecaon]

Camber does wear, just not that fast. It has taken my Jetta 130kmiles to show belt on the rear right tire, which has about -1.5 degree camber which is stock. Sounds more like toe issues to me...

 

Now, not sure with a B, but compared to a 510 strut, the ZX creates negative camber, although some have reported positive in rare cases, like Dat-Sides above.

[Uber Deaf One]

Camber does wear, just not that fast. It has taken my Jetta 130kmiles to show belt on the rear right tire, which has about -1.5 degree camber which is stock. Sounds more like toe issues to me...

 

Now, not sure with a B, but compared to a 510 strut, the ZX creates negative camber, although some have reported positive in rare cases, like Dat-Sides above.

 

130k on a single set of tires? holy shit?

[Dguy210]

Ok, thanks guys. Looks like I really need to just get some time to go out and do some measuring.

[Laecaon]

130k on a single set of tires? holy shit?

 

No, the right rear only.

 

Left rear got punctured by a FedEx truck. Front set is on 4th set of tires.

 

Rear brake pads have over half life left at 130k, and it had its first change of the front pads at 130k, rotors were still looking great.

[Uber Deaf One]

I've never heard of a tire lasting 130k lol, even a rear tire.

[Laecaon]

It is kinda hard to believe. That said, it should have been replaced some time ago. I am not taking the car on any trips until I have new rear tires for it.

[banzai510(hainz)]

take it in and have it cked. they can align it for usually 50$ or tell you what is wrong.

 

if camber issues are off its not big deal but toe in/out issue will wear it out even faster.

If poscamber only way I see camber plates or slot the holes in thwe strut tower. Or you got soem funky struts

[Dguy210]

take it in and have it cked. they can align it for usually 50$ or tell you what is wrong.

 

if camber issues are off its not big deal but toe in/out issue will wear it out even faster.

If poscamber only way I see camber plates or slot the holes in thwe strut tower. Or you got soem funky struts

 

Unless someone has a great shop they know of in Sacto, I wouldn't trust the shops around here with a golf cart.

 

I'm definitely thinking a toe issue is causing the problem. I'll check it based on the suggestions in this thread, probably on the 4th.

[The Dat-side]

Mines as easy as looking at the right side. Then looking at the left side. Is yours not that clear?

[ggzilla]

That is caused by negative camber. Stock alignment specification is positive camber.

 

Anytime you change suspension or steering components, or lower the car, the alignment should be checked and corrected if needed.

[datzenmike]

Lowering the front will force varying amounts of toe out and negative camber.

[ggzilla]

Yes, and a small amount of negative camber (-1 degree) is good for roadholding and won't cause abnormal wear unless drive hard on cambered roads. Large amount of negative camber will cause wear on the inside half of the tire.

[datzenmike]

On a 23" tall tire, a one degree (positive or negative) camber is only 0.2" off vertical measured at the tire top. Not much, so if you can see that your tires are cambered (in or out) they have to be way way out.

[Dguy210]

Yes, and a small amount of negative camber (-1 degree) is good for roadholding and won't cause abnormal wear unless drive hard on cambered roads. Large amount of negative camber will cause wear on the inside half of the tire.

 

My understanding was that negative camber shouldn't cause wear on the outside half of the tire as I'm seeing. This would be more like extreme positive camber, right?

[datzenmike]

Could be a toe problem

[ggzilla]

Outside half of the tire? It looked to me like the inside half, but on 3rd look I see it. Yes, postive camber. Toe-out will also cause big scrubbing on the edge of the tire won't it? Normally you have some scrubbing from the brakes.

 

Time to check your alignment again.

[Dguy210]

So measured from outside edge to outside edge front and back as close as possible to the horizontal. Front 58 3/8, back 59 1/2 :o So looks like toe in... I'm going to swap some new rubber on to the back, and move the back to the front and adjust it out.

[Dguy210]

So measured from outside edge to outside edge front and back as close as possible to the horizontal. Front 58 3/8, back 59 1/2 :o So looks like toe in... I'm going to swap some new rubber on to the back, and move the back to the front and adjust it out.

 

 

 

All better now :thumbup:

[banzai510(hainz)]

I just took mne to Les Scwab and they hooked up the laser things and adjusted it. put _1deg camber.

All is good now. I dont have to white nuckel it on a hard rain doing 60mph next to a big truck!!!!!!!!

[datzenmike]

All better now :thumbup:

 

Measuring the front and the backs of the tire isn't accurate enough. For one, the rubber isn't perfectly round or evenly shaped. Second, where do you measure from? the edge of the worn tread? Also your base line is barely 23" and one degree is only a difference of 0.2 inches. Measuring the tires is only an indicator to confirm that it's wildly out and not good enough for setting it.