the nice machine Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 not sure where to post this one but i need some help. i'm in the middle of taking the head off of my A14 engine (1978 B210) because the head gasket is blown. i start taking the head bolts out in the proper sequence one turn at a time... i realized that the bolt that is SUPPOSED to be marked "12T" is marked "13" just like all of the others. this is supposed to be a smaller diameter hole... the middle hole on the drivers side... but this thing is jammed in crazy tight. i managed to turn it about 3 turns but it is so tight that it feels like i am about to break the bolt. all of the other bolts are loose. i'm pretty sure some dumbass put the wrong sized bolt in this thing at some point. am i as screwed as i think i am? should i just crank the thing and see if it comes out? has this happened to anyone? PLEASE HELP! this here bolt. the oil bolt? drivers side middle head bolt and they ALL say 13 on them, i am afraid that someone has done something horribly wrong to my little buddy in the past. Quote Link to comment
Ranman72 Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I believe the bolt is the same diameter just longer hope it comes out Quote Link to comment
the nice machine Posted May 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 according to the haynes manual it is a smaller diameter- but they have been wrong before. i don't know if i should just go crank it out... its so tight it keeps stripping my ratchet, i'll have to use a wrench. it definately feels like some meathead just drove that thing in there without wondering why it was so tight. shit. Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 That particular bolt (center, manifold side) is supposed to be the same as all the others. Only the center, spark plug side bolt is different (that's the oil passage bolt). Most notably it is longer, but it also has a section that is smaller diameter in the middle (for the oil to flow around it).. The bolt head and bolt threads are the same diameter as the others. Quote Link to comment
the nice machine Posted May 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 That particular bolt (center, manifold side) is supposed to be the same as all the others. Only the center, spark plug side bolt is different (that's the oil passage bolt). Most notably it is longer, but it also has a section that is smaller diameter in the middle (for the oil to flow around it).. The bolt head and bolt threads are the same diameter as the others. awesome, good to hear. i will take your word over the haynes manual... i've been burned by haynes too many times, you ratsun pros are always right. if it wasn't for posts i've read by you and datzen mike, my cars wouldn't run at all. Quote Link to comment
KELMO Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I agree with GG the smaller diameter 12T bolt should be on the spark plug side. It looks like the other bolt has come out a little, can you spray a little PB blaster in there and can it be turned to tighten a little bit? I have not had (wtf my font changed) that happen with a head bolt before, but if I encountered this problem I would try the PB blaster and try to work it back and forth. Quote Link to comment
the nice machine Posted May 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I agree with GG the smaller diameter 12T bolt should be on the spark plug side. It looks like the other bolt has come out a little, can you spray a little PB blaster in there and can it be turned to tighten a little bit? I have not had (wtf my font changed) that happen with a head bolt before, but if I encountered this problem I would try the PB blaster and try to work it back and forth. yeah i ended up soaking it in liquid wrench for an hour then i just wrestled with it and slowly turned it out. i was really scared that i was going to break the bolt the whole time, my torque wrench only goes to 80 pounds and it was way past that the whole way out. i finally got it out and got the head off and you guys are right, the middle one on the spark plug side is narrower on the shaft but the same thread, and it is marked 13, the haynes book said it would be on the right hand side, and that the bolt would be marked 12T. that is the 3rd time i got into a jam because of haynes and ratsun saved the day. thanks y'all! Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 The middle bolt is 'T' on A12 engines The middle bolt is '13' on A14 engines Note the one 'T' bolt in this photo: Quote Link to comment
LenRobertson Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 So can you see the threads down in the block and do they look okay? Does one of the other head bolts, well oiled, screw in and out of that hole easily? I'm wondering if you need to get a tap that size and run down that hole. But I can't tell you what size or length tap you need. It should be a tap that doesn't taper at the lower end (I think it is called a plug tap, which doesn't have anything to do with spark plugs. Or maybe the term is bottoming tap. I wish I could remember anything). If you search on eBay for "B210 factory service" manual or some variation on that term, there are several on there for $20 or less. They have way more info than Haynes, Chiltons, etc. Money well spent. Be careful not to get the factory owners manual. There are always a bunch of those on eBay. Len Quote Link to comment
the nice machine Posted May 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 So can you see the threads down in the block and do they look okay? Does one of the other head bolts, well oiled, screw in and out of that hole easily? I'm wondering if you need to get a tap that size and run down that hole. But I can't tell you what size or length tap you need. It should be a tap that doesn't taper at the lower end (I think it is called a plug tap, which doesn't have anything to do with spark plugs. Or maybe the term is bottoming tap. I wish I could remember anything). If you search on eBay for "B210 factory service" manual or some variation on that term, there are several on there for $20 or less. They have way more info than Haynes, Chiltons, etc. Money well spent. Be careful not to get the factory owners manual. There are always a bunch of those on eBay. Len i just got done scrubbing the bolt that was stuck- the threads are fine not sure about the hole yet. the bolt was caked in some really really stiff gunk. maybe some kind of sealer fix-it crap product residue? i was already thinking about the tap and die thing, i think i might squeeze by without it. it looks like i'll be scrubbing for the next couple of hours. Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 This is what I use, made with a hacksaw blade and an extra head bolt -- an el cheapo bottoming tap thread chaser! Thread it in a little ways, take it out, clean it up, and repeat until you can thread it all the way in with your fingers. Quote Link to comment
Kisor Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Don't burn yourself, get a tap and chase the threads. When you go to torque the head back down you can't have any extra resistance on that bolt or it will be wrong. Just take one of the bolts to the parts store and have someone help you find the thread size and pitch. Unless someone here knows it? Oh and as far as the right and left side of the engine/car, its noted as you are sitting in the seat. So driver is left and pass is right.. Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 If all the bolts will spin in with your fingers except that one, you will likely have future issues, chase the threads with a tap, or take a chance of having to do it all over again in the near future and having to buy all new gaskets again. It likely is the reason you have a blown headgasket in the first place. Quote Link to comment
Ranman72 Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 The tap is a BOTTOM TAP I love Ratsun so much info here Quote Link to comment
the nice machine Posted May 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 ok i got it done- all threads were okay! everything was really gunky and crystalized, the bolts looked misshapen and stripped when i got them out. it wasn't gummy either it was solid, it flew off in chunks . i used a tiny wire brush on a dremel to get it off and the bolts were fine. most of the holes were just as bad so i made one of those cool gap screw thingies out of a 2" C clamp. i checked the threads and they matched, and it worked great. so after a couple of hours of de-gunking the bolts were screwing in and out smoothly. i also checked the head with a straightedge and feeler gauge... it was still flat! so once everything was squeaky clean i put it all back together with all new gaskets. i adjusted the valves at the end while it was cold, when i started it it was kinda tappin because i didn't get it quite right, but i am too tired to readjust them now, i'll do all of that stuff tomorrow. thank for the advice every body. Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 it's progress. hopefully you'll driving it tomorrow afternoon! Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 That is cool, how'd you figure out the threads were the same, I guess it doesn't matter, it's still cool. Quote Link to comment
the nice machine Posted May 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 That is cool, how'd you figure out the threads were the same, I guess it doesn't matter, it's still cool. i used a pair of calipers to measure them, then i put them side by side and made sure all of the threads lined up. Quote Link to comment
the nice machine Posted May 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 UPDATE: i'm back on the road, valves adjusted, temp holding just fine. everything is swell. 1 Quote Link to comment
skunk Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 that's awesome, good job Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Dude, the C clamp being the same size as the head bolts has to be the lucky stroke of the century! Awesome! :) Quote Link to comment
Tice Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 ^ No joke! Good work Nice Machine. Always best to do it right the first time! Quote Link to comment
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