Autocross/Street Handling '72 510 Wagon

[iwayman]

....

Time for those duel sidedrafts!

 

Kinda hoping the next AutoX is with an r32, then we'll see what the times are...

[troyt]

Rob will take good care of you. The Race Wagon has been on his dyno a couple times over the years, as well as other Datsuns of mine. Tell him 'hi' for me.

So how's your tire wear looking after getting your alignment issues taken care of? Much better I presume. And how much front camber are you trying now at the track?

Nice job btw, wagons look very cool carving the cones...

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Tire wear is definitely better now. Have a nearly 2k on these ones now and they still look fairly fresh, just the typical camber wear. I'm running about 1.5-2*. Most of the alignments recently have been homegrown so I'm not 100% on the camber, been playing with tie rods and ball joints too much to take it to an alignment shop just yet. 

 

I'm hoping that the shocks and sway bar in the back give me the extra edge that I need to really put up some competitive times against the other street tire equipped cars at the autocross. Since the wagon sill pushes pretty bad in the corners I know I'm losing a lot of time on hairpins and big long loopers. Everything else the wagon takes fast than just about anything... well, anything on street tires at least. 

 

Speaking of which, I have new shiny bits coming from QA1 hopefully by the end of next week. Want them in and adjusted before I take the car to Rob's for the dyno. Then sway bar, then tearing everything but the motor out of the bay, relocating the battery, painting the bay and cleaning everything out of it that isn't necessary. Aiming for Joel level cleanliness. 

[troyt]

Pushing, understeering - the front end has less grip than the rear while cornering. You probably should try things that soften the front end/stiffen the rear. Examples: try dropping the front tire pressure a couple pounds and/or increasing the rear pressures. Try softening the front sway and/or increasing/adding a rear sway bar. Try softening the the front spring rates and/or increasing the rear spring rate. Try softening the front shock settings and/or stiffening the rear shock settings. On a race car I would add: try more front camber, raise rear height (more rake), widen front track. Or adjust driving style - slower corner entry speed so front tires aren't turning and braking so hard simultaneously and then you can get on throttle sooner to rotate car and exit faster. Or try the throttle and brake at same time while cornering technique.

Then when the all usual things don't work, don't be afraid to try the opposite - stiffen front end, etc. Rarely, but sometimes, a car will react differently than expected ;-)

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

I'm too sexy for my shocks, too sexy for my shocks.... Just kidding, these shocks are way sexier than me. 

 

 

Single adjustable with 18 settings. 

 

Had to do some modification as always. QA1 is mainly an american muscle car supplier, these are actually C10 Chevy rear shocks, but they are the correct length and travel for how the wagon currently sits. They cam with T-bars in the bottom eyelets, removed them, and tried to drill out the 1/2" sleeves to 16mm, which is what the stud that the wagon lower shock eyelet mounts to is. 

 

 

Well, that didn't work. Turns out I don't have a 16mm drill bit, and the closest I could get was around 15.5mm (it was something like a 39/64"), then tried to file it out more to get the clearance. No dice, spent about hour at the drill press for something too small. So I ran to the hardware store and lo and behold -- they had some welding grade steel pipe that was exactly the right OD and ID. 

 

 

Then putting the shocks on was just like replacing them with regular stock replacements. 

 

 

Set the shocks to 10 of 18 on the adjuster. Pretty stiff, might go stiff, might lighten it up, need to drive the car more before I decide. But wow, what a difference. Going form effectively non functional shocks to these... car feels way more planted, and is way easier to make step out in the rear. All-in-all definitely worth it to finally get a set of these on the car. 

[INDY510]

The wagon looked great at Canby: ... click below each pic to see the full-size image:

 

Full-size: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/326/19132784504_c0907d5b12_o.jpg

 

Full-size: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/418/19755371185_a54e0dd6be_o.jpg

 

Full-size: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/489/19132795014_0654506cfc_o.jpg

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Coming soon.....

 

 

 

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Still compiling some good pics of the rollbar work Luke just did on the wagon. Want to do it some real credit. 

 

In the meantime.... 

 

New brake pads, thing stops stupidly fast now. 

 

 

 

 

Going to have to put some new studs in those hubs. The ones I bought a while back just aren't holding up the way I wanted. 

So I got these

 

 

 

Dad paid me a visit in SLO to help me take out my steering box and grind it down to make some header clearance. 

 

 

 

The light patch on the box is where we made clearance. Then we put some parts on the car that have been laying around for too long. 

 

 

Everything looks good so far. There's still a bit of banging as the motor hits about 2k rpm in a right hand turn, but I think that's not the steering box but the steering knuckle below it. It's bearable though, an issue for another day. For now I'm going to drive the piss out of it. 

[troyt]

It's a little tougher now that your steering box and brace is in place, but I made even more room by shaving off material from the box surface that contacts the chassis. I shaved it at an angle to create even more room at the top.

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

It's a little tougher now that your steering box and brace is in place, but I made even more room by shaving off material from the box surface that contacts the chassis. I shaved it at an angle to create even more room at the top.

 

..... How come I didn't think of that..... 

 

I may do that later on. There are still some instances of rubbing going on, but I am not sure where they are exactly yet. Kind of just driving to see where everything settles before I go in for round two. Thanks for the advice (I think I should be okay with the steering box so long as I'm not shaving off a ton more). 

[HDat]

Love this thread!!

 

I saw one point you said you were not using the rear reflectors that sit under the tail lights.  Any chance you still have them? 

[soundboi]

a bit more information on the rear bars? I really like the idea and understand the concept but i cant really understand the design too much.

 

a bit more info? Especially where does it mount on the frame and the diff.

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

I apologize for the lateness of my replies. Been busy with school and work. 

 

 

Love this thread!!

 

I saw one point you said you were not using the rear reflectors that sit under the tail lights.  Any chance you still have them? 

 

Unfortunately I know at least the driver side reflector was broken, and I believe the rubber skirts on the outer edges of them were both cracked and shrinking away. I can double check next time I'm back in the Bay where the parts stash is. 

 

 

a bit more information on the rear bars? I really like the idea and understand the concept but i cant really understand the design too much.

 

a bit more info? Especially where does it mount on the frame and the diff.

 

 

The traction bars?  The fronts of the bars attach to a bracket that you weld on the front leaf spring bracket (effectively you're just extending that piece to be more like a shackle that connects both the leaf spring and the traction bar to the frame of the car. The rear part is attached to a bracket that you need to weld onto the bottom side of the square piece of metal that you use to sandwich the leaf springs to the the axle with U-bolts. I can get some better pictures for you soon, but there's also a thread on it somewhere in the general section. 

 

If you're asking about the rear sway bar, it attaches to the frame rail at either end of the bar with a metal box strip (looks like a squared off u) which bolts to the box of the frame rail. Then there's a floating mount (just like the front sway bar) that connects the bar to newly attached frame mount. 

The flat portion of the bar attaches to the axle with a couple of U-bolts and brackets/bushings. This may change, as I haven't put the bar on the car yet and I'd like to do something to make it adjustable. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reason for failing to update this thread more: Not a whole ton happening to the car. Dailying it, driving a lot (something like 4,000 miles on odo since this time last year). Also took up a part time job as a photographer for a local Volvo dealership... so I'm becoming somewhat of a snob when it come to automotive photography, and I really want to get the car clean inside and out before I take good photos of things like the roll bar and new spook and all the other little goodies I've collected over the past year. 

 

In the meantime, here's some rough and ready shots from my last autocross. 

 

 

 

Only ran a second or so off of iwayman in his newly (okay it was like a year ago) acquired R32 GTR. 

 

 

 

And a Ferrari for good measure. 

 

 

That was a fun day at work. 

[Z23T]

Now that you've had these abs door panels for a while, how do you like them? I thought about building some but I have some questions. Do they rattle against the door, hold their shape, offer any noise reduction, and are they scuff resistant?
 

Thanks,

Cam

 

I then decided that as much of the white interior was going to go as I could do practically and cheap. So I started to take out the white panels and began to make my own out of black ABS plastic from Tap Plastics.






 

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

They're pretty noisy. It really didn't bother me at first, but in hindsight I really should have put something behind them to buffer them against the doors' framework. Just using a thin layer of foam would have helped quiet them down a lot. 

 

The reason I haven't done this is because I'm very close to just pulling them out and making new ones with 1/8" card and foam and vinyl. 

 

 

They've held shape well, but the big issue is just the lack of noise reduction, and actually the noise is probably worse because of rattles. There are small scuffs, but usually it takes something fairly significant to really make a mark on them. 

 

Now that you've had these abs door panels for a while, how do you like them? I thought about building some but I have some questions. Do they rattle against the door, hold their shape, offer any noise reduction, and are they scuff resistant?
 

Thanks,

Cam

 

 

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Long, past-due update. 

 

 

Here's some photos of the finished roll bar. 

 

 

 

 

Luke really did an amazing job with this. It's bolt in so that I can take it out to make adjustments to the interior of the car as needed. Very cool, ended up asking him to put in the triangulation bar, partly because it looks cool, partly because it's actually safer that way (not that I foresee rolling the car). 

 

 

Ignore the raggedy-ass headliner. It will be replaced once I do some more major cosmetic restorations to the car (possibly this summer). 

 

Luke also sourced and installed a very cool battery box for the back of the wagon. I saw it in one of the other 510s he had in his shop one day and decided it was just about the best looking solution I'd seen, short of sinking the battery below the car (a much more costly endeavor). 

 

 

 

It grounds right to the floor of the car next to the box, and then the positive lead trails along the inside of the car, via the tranny tunnel and ducks into the engine bay by way of this really cool firewall terminal. 

 

 

Also slapped a 5 point on the driver's side, one of the big reasons I wanted the roll bar. Again, this is less of a safety precaution, since I don't track the car yet I'm not in danger of high speed racing crashes, and I don't use the harness on the street (often). It just really nice to be cinched down while you're on the autocross. It takes a lot of pressure off the steering since you no longer brace your weight with your arms by pushing on the wheel. 

 

 

Speaking of steering wheels, I picked up a Momo Prototipo for the car. I had been using a handmedown Momo Montecarlo, but it was nearing the end of it's life. I chose the Prototipo because it gives the interior a little more period look -- without using a wooden steering wheel, like a Nardi, which don't look performance oriented enough for my taste. 

 

 

I also got a new shift knob courtesy of my dad at Christmas. It's a TWM Performance knob, large, stainless steel, and very weighty. Makes shifting the car feel a lot more effortless. Especially the 1st to 2nd shift. 

 

 

 

Mmmmm shiny. 

 

 

I also broke the spook on an ill placed piece of reebar that was sticking out of a parking bumper at just the right angle that I couldn't see it. New spook, less damaged and than mine was even originally. It doesn't quite sit straight thanks to a fairly munched valence (a planned fix coming with the wagon's facelift this summer). 

 

 

 

I've been driving her. A lot. She's a little dirty and gets the occasional cosmetic blemish, but I'm enjoying the hell out of it. Have another autocross coming soon. I'm currently set to put the car over the 100,000 mile mark by the end of the year. (got the car at 64,000 - new motor around 72,000 - and currently sitting at 91,000).

 

It's finally rained some in San Luis Obispo, so the hills are finally green again. Went up my favorite little canyon road near my rental house for some photos. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lots of parts sitting on the shelf. Some little cosmetic bits, as well as a sway bar I still haven't put on the rear (that's like 14 months overdue now) and some newly acquired derlin bushing for the leaf spring eyelets and shackles. Should help me eliminate the remainder of the unwanted understeer at the autocross. 

 

 

In the next few weeks I'm driving down to test fit myself into some one piece bucket seats. I'm very, very picky about seats. Nearly every bucket I see in 510s look to big to me (the wings on the shoulders nearly touch in the center of the car). So, I'm going to do something silly and buy really skinny, old school looking seats for the car. It'll help keep me in shape... can't get too wide or I won't fit in my car anymore. 

 

They'll look something like this:

 

 

Only different. No spoilers.. it'll make a splash I think, though.

[Janksun]

Wow man. This wagon has come a long way and I'm super impressed. I'm loving it. Keep headed in the same direction and your wagon will be one of the nicest ones out there!

[fisch]

Looks so good!

[Draker]

Nice work man! Looking really nice.

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Had a fun time at the autocross this last weekend. Got into the nitty gritty details of suspension with Larry Butler (fellow 510 fanatic) who took top time of the day in his Superbrick.

 

 

 

 

 

I'll fix that someday...

 

I need to do some brake work soon, and put in a proportioning valve somehow (maybe a new pedal box -- we'll see) to try and get the fronts and rears to lock up at the same time.

 

 

 

 

My brakes are big though. So big, when you stand on the pedal, your headlights pop out.

 

 

In all seriousness, I have some sorting out that needs to get done before the next autocross. The great part is I won't have to spend any money to get it faster. I have Derlin bushings for the leaf springs and leaf spring shackles and a rear sway bar just sitting that I haven't gotten around to putting on. I'll get that done while I'm back home over spring break this next week. 

 

Larry and I did some digging around under the hood and he pointed out that my LCAs are completely wonky. I mean really bad. I thought that I had fixed that issue when I did the suspension the first time, but may have messed it up again when I put the ZX struts in. The plan is to drill holes about 1" further up the crossmember (basically mimicking a 68-69 crossmember) and see if I can get the LCAs pointed down again. This could be attributing to the cars unpredictable turn in. Sometimes it grabs really well and the rear rotates enough to get you around the corner. Then on the next run I'll go in exactly the same speed and exactly the same brakes and it just plows. I think it has something to do with the LCAs, since their the only thing on the front that we could find really wrong. 

 

If I opt to put any more money into the performance of the car right now (not planned, but autocrossing has my undies in a bunch to get it going faster) I will probably pick up a set of cheap wheels the same size as mine and put some DOT legal slicks on them. Then I'll have a set of shoes specifically for autocross days. Tires seem to make more difference on a car than anything else you can do to it. 

[qship510]

Larry is the coolest!! I drove that car at Shasta back in.......2000? Maybe? Definitely looks like it has evolved some

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Larry is the coolest!! I drove that car at Shasta back in.......2000? Maybe? Definitely looks like it has evolved some

 

It stayed true to the autocrossing 510 formula for a while. The aero bodywork is a new addition. And it really works. He picked up about half a second run to run with and without it the first time he used it. 

 

It's pushed him over the edge and now he's got top time by about a full second.

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Just got the official results from the autocross a couple days ago. I beat 10 Porsches. I'm calling that a success. Car needs the rear to get sorted and a set of sticky tires. Then I can start really putting up some scary times. 

[troyt]

In our vintage race club, VARA, the Porsche vs Datsun rivalry is so deep we have a special P vs D only race each October ;-)

I co-drove my old Wagon in a two hour Enduro at Willow Springs Raceway this wknd, great time, and we battled with a 911 for laps... We had it beat until we lost 5th gear during the second hour.

[Lockleaf]

That's awesome