Autocross/Street Handling '72 510 Wagon

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Got my center console covered. I took it all apart and reassembled with wood glue. 

 

 

This box stays intact forever, so all the bracing and backing plates are glued in and screwed in. 

 

 

Testing adhesive methods, decided to lay a layer of foam under the vinyl to give it some bounce. Ended up using a combination of spray adhesive and super glue. 

 

Clamps and clamps and clamps and clamps...  oh and some wood 

 

 

Foam is on. 

 

 

Wrapage. 

 

 

 

Spent about two hours in the dark so no picture of the other wraps. 

 

 

There are still a couple imperfections here and there, but I'm satisfied with how it looks so far. Will post pics of it in the car soon.

[jalen]

That looks really good!

[510T]

Looks really good!  Where did you get the foam?

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

It's just some generic stuff from Home Depot that I had laying around. I think it's the stuff that they put under hardwood or maybe linoleum. It's about 1/8" thick. I used spray adhesive to put it on. It doesn't wrap around the edges because I needed them to be tight but it does fight very tightly to the profile of each piece so it's not obvious it's there once wrapped.

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Center console is finished with the new boot I made for it.

 

 

Shifter boot detail.

 

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Got door panels, wheel well covers and carpet in the back. 

 

 

 

 

Starting to look like an interior again. 

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

So I spent around 3 hours in the sun yesterday cleaning, polishing, and waxing the wagon. Wanted to see what I could do with a big mechanical buffer while I had one on loan from a friend. (Thanks Kurt!)

 

After wash

 

 

 

 

After polish, buff, and wax. 

 

 

 

Some juxtaposition, top is after the buff and wax

 

 

 

Just because... 

 

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Steering box brace, helper springs for coilovers, and rear sway bar inbound within a couple weeks. 

[troyt]

Lookin' good!

Rear sway bar, is the front end pushing?

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Yeah, even after the traction bars which stiffened it up significantly the car still understeers and pushes into corners. I think there are a couple things attributing to the issue, one is the lack correctly sized shocks in the rear (QA1s are soon to come, but money was better directed at fixing other issues for the time being since autocross season is still on hold), and that I have no other form of real handling performance modification in the rear (ie. sway bar or panhard bar or something to that extent). 

 

Pre-traction bars. 

 

 

Post-traction bars.

 

 

The real goal for me is to be able to make the car oversteer just a hair, right now I need to be throwing it in with the intention of drifting to get it to do that. It's like have an on-off button for oversteer. 

 

Hopefully with the bar I can start to see the rear end settle down since it feels like all my body roll is initiating from the rear of the car, or rather that the rear is pulling the rest of the car with it since it only has connection to the axle via the leaf spring shackles. Should help me a lot with pivoting corners in autocrossing where I really want to stab the breaks then quickly give gas to rotate the rear to complete sharp corners. 

[troyt]

Good to see you've given it some thought rather than just throwing parts at it. Rigid bushings instead of rubber for the rear bar (as well as anything else possible) will help, as well as some adjustability.

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

I bought the bar from Dave at FutoFab so it came with all kinds of good racing hardware, including polyurethane bushings for the end links. Unfortunately there is really only one design of bar available for wagons and it's fixed. I'm going to put it in and see how it works out then I'll put some adjustability into it by cutting of the holes at the end of it and rewelding a three hole pattern piece there if I think I need to swap it around in terms of stiffness. 

 

I've also been exploring doing some duralin bushings for the leaf spring shackles, but I haven't really sourced anyone to do one off's for me yet. At the very least I need to replace the upper bushings in the shackles since I saw mine are looking pretty decrepit when I was under the car today. 

[troyt]

ST Suspension used to make an adjustable rear, but maybe only for the IRS???

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

On their website it doesn't look like they carry anything, and the only car that they have listed is the "510 Base" which I assume means sedan. Since the bar that I'm using uses a U bolt like scenario it seems like the bar wouldn't be the same as the IRS version. I do like the fact that it is a very direct connection straight from axle to framerail, but I think it could use some changes, mainly in the way that it mounts to the frame and the axle. First job is just to see how it works as is and then go from there. 

 

The bar itself looks like it's made by Adco, which is the same as any of the ones that I see on eBay or elsewhere, the difference of course coming from the hardware from FutoFab being superior quality to what I'd expect from an eBay bar haha. 

[Laecaon]

You should post pictures of it mounted, specifically how it mounts to the "frame," of course when you get around to installing it.

[Shellback]

I also autocross a wagon out here in Virginia. I run in FSP under SCCA rules.  I've read all your post and have really like what you've done. I have the Addco bar on the rear, welded brackets to the housing and welded bar stock to the end of the bar with holes for adjustably, using rod-ends for end links. I used U-channel mounted to the frame for the end-links to mount to.

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

I also autocross a wagon out here in Virginia. I run in FSP under SCCA rules.  I've read all your post and have really like what you've done. I have the Addco bar on the rear, welded brackets to the housing and welded bar stock to the end of the bar with holes for adjustably, using rod-ends for end links. I used U-channel mounted to the frame for the end-links to mount to.

 

I'm pretty sure that's similar to how we're going to mount this one. But we've decided to hold off on putting it on until I have a set of adjustable shocks from QA1 to put on too, we'll do a quick step by step and see how it feels after the shocks, and then again with the shocks and the sway bar... just for the sake of "science".

 

 

Spent my Spring Break this week doing a ton of maintenance on the front end of the car. New tie rod ends, wheel bearings and seals, some keeper springs for the front coilovers in an attempt to quiet down the front suspension some in terms of clunking. 

 

 

Man that stuff gets nasty real fast under there, had to clean up the coilover and repaint the dust caps because I couldn't stand how dirty they get. 

 

The keeper springs (little 3" 20lb springs from Eibach that basically just keep the main spring located) did quiet it down quite a bit, but on big bumps there  is still a clunk coming from the front passenger side that I need to investigate more. We also found that the alignment was all out of whack, just from a few months of driving, so the tie rod ball joints all got replaced and now it seems to hold an alignment better. 

 

Somehow, despite every alignment shop swearing that both tires have -1* of camber at least, there is wear on both the tires suggesting positive camber (they wear tremendously on the outside edges) so I slammed the camber plates down until there was very visible negative camber on both sides and put on a new pair of tires. 

 

Then made some homegrown alignment tools. 

 

 

Got it to about 3/8" towed in overall, which is close to where I want it on the street. 

 

Also had to re-lower the front of the car about 3/4 - 1" in the front again (since the keeper springs add about 10lbs to coil and an additional 2" of pack height when compressed in the package) Now it's got about an inch more of negative camber up front, and it's maybe another quarter inch lower than it was before. 

 

 

Tomorrow is valve adjustment then a 200 mile trek back down to San Luis Obispo. Oh, and good wash and wax.

[HRH]

Say, I think I know why your outside edges are wearing.  You have it 3/8" towed in you say?  If that's accurate, that's the problem of your tire wear and your understeer.  Having raced the Miata and both my 510s, I can tell you if anything, you want a smidge of toe OUT.  And I mean a gnat's ass.  However, the best formula for turning is simply 0 degrees, exactly straight.  Unless you've changed steering geometry, it's still the most effective way around the corner.  The suspension and tire will deflect either way under heavy load, albeit very small.  

 

Toe out would be for gymkhana style autocross with lots of sharp hard turns.  Toe in is for tracking true down the road.  But 3/8" if you're actually measuring is fing huge.  3/8 of a degree would be acceptable.  3/8" would be very not good and lead to the problems you're describing.

[Trophy24]

I agree 3/8 is too much toe in. Street driven cars typically run about 1/8" or .12 on the alignment machine.

[jesusno2]

3/8 toe in is alot my old wagon i ran 0 toe 1.5 negative camber to help it turn in. 

[troyt]

Keep trying different things and keeping good notes, that's how you learn and get faster.

But these guys are right, your toe is way off. Start with zero and get your steering wheel straight, then do an event, and go from there. Toe-in helps on the street, toe-out helps on the race track, neutral is a good start for a street-driven auto-crosser. And a little negative camber will help you too, maybe one degree, but depends on the tires. We use minus 3 on the track but your's is also a street car.

Your homemade kick plates are all you need, along with a simple camber gauge (I've used my iPhone handy level app at the track). Be sure your set-up surface is level...

[Busta Nut]

Keep trying different things and keeping good notes, that's how you learn and get faster.

 

 

^^...this....

 

I'm currently playing with alignment angle also.....

 

 

When we align cars.....most get about 1/16"-1/8" toe in......this for the average Joe.....

........when you sit in the car.....it usually flattens out to 0 depending on the stiffness of the suspension and your weight....

 

If you can.....make your adjustments with some weight in the driver's seat.....

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Been playing with the toe, have it set to about 1/16" in right now, seems to be a good cross for street use and autocrossing. 

 

Speaking of autocrossing, finally got my butt out to one the weekend after Canby. 

 

https://youtu.be/4zLPG4uyT-8?t=479

 

Borrowed a buddies GoPro for one of the runs. Unfortunately don't have a standalone clip of my run, just the conglomerate of all the runs we took that day. Click the link for the specific video time of my run, or look at the one below for the full video (I'm the second to last clip). 

 

 

Fun fact, I rand .40 seconds behind my friend in his M3 with some lowered suspension and bigger than stock tires, beat the stock 2015 WRX and was about .08 seconds behind the BRZ that was there (the BRZ was my target all day. Trying to beat those has kind of been my goal with the wagon thus far autocrossing.)

[iwayman]

Hey! In my defense that was only my second auto-X and my tires are old and cracked!

[Son_of_a_Datsun_Guy]

Yeah, yeah. And you've got the traction control, and the ABS, and the 300hp... I really need to get the sway bar and the new shocks in the back, then we'll see what the times look like. 

 

Also getting the wagon dyno'd in July, Rob at ZCarGarage is also going to give the motor a good go through in terms of tuning to see what it really makes.