FRAM vs. NAPA (Wix) comparison

[a.d._510_n_ok]

all I know is that a Wix and a Fram weigh about the same dry when you install them but if you change them at the same intervals the Wix will always be heavier. that suggests to me that the Wix is pulling more crap out of the engine.

[BenJammin]

Don't know about that theory... I'd just hope that my engine isn't disintegrating enough to noticeably weigh down an oil filter ! 

 

It's probably just because it has the extra pleats [surface area] and just holds more oil.

[a.d._510_n_ok]

Don't know about that theory... I'd just hope that my engine isn't disintegrating enough to noticeably weigh down an oil filter ! 

 

It's probably just because it has the extra pleats [surface area] and just holds more oil.

 

I'll buy that.

[ggzilla]

Red FRAM is the cheap one. The ULTRA is the good one. More pleats, better anti-drainback, better construction.

[datsunaholic]

Red?  I've never seen a red Fram.  Baldwins (a good but very expensive filter) are red.

 

Orange.  Frams are orange.  Thats why they're called the Orange Can of Death.  And the more expensive Frams are still worse in the bypass valve than a low-end WIX.

[oldskoolvws]

I have to disagree with a lot of the information here. Up until a few years ago, I was a vehicle equipment performance manager for Toyota Manufacturing. I worked on all the performance test equipment to test the cars prior to delivery to the dealerships. I traveled the world and I got to play with some seriously cool stuff. I now work for Tesla Motors Manufacturing, creating the worlds future of electric automibiles. Different career path, same environment.

 

Although more pleats equates to more theoretical surface area, much more must be taken into account than just looks or pleats. Each filter is designed with specific attributes in mind. Pressure, fluid dynamics, temperature, valving, oil and filter composition are some of the main factors in filter design. Even length of use is a factor (typically those with less pleats).

 

Something I may have missed reading all the prior comments are micron capabilities. Although the Fram has less pleats than others, its micron count may be way more than the other brands being discussed. They also may not. The only true way to test a filters viability is to do an oil analysis with a baseline contaminant level. Essentially take a batch of oil with known particulate or PPM count, run samples through each filter and reanalyze the oil. Ask me how I know. Granted, each manufacturer uses different materials for seals, filter media and housings, but without a true benchmarking test, you guys are all guessing down to a personal preference or hearsay. Because of Non-Disclosure Agreements, I cannot tell you what product is better than others, but I can tell you a lot of the information here is inaccurate.

 

The reason automotive manufacturers specify and make recommendations on oil viscosity is to support the vehicles engine design, including the oil pressure, restrictions (filter) and temperature. Fram got a bad name a few years back because of the lack of a anti-drain back valves and haven't been able to recover. Yes, they use cardboard endcaps on some of their products, but they are oil saturation safe.

 

In case your wondering, for my engines, I use Wix, Mobile 1 and even Fram. They have good test results. Keep in mind "meets or exceeds" OEM manufactures recommendations is all that matters unless you are looking for something more specific. A big issue now is that many of the 50+ year old companies are finding out they can save money by using subpar materials.

 

Just my two cents.

 

OSVW

[nismo dr]

 

look at the big brain on brad 

 

:rofl:  :rofl:

[nismo dr]

I only use Nissan filters cause blue is my favorite color...............................true story

[HRH]

I know of two engine failures due to filter disintegration here in Spokane.  One was a Dodge 318, one was an RX-7.  Both had filter media sucked through their oil galleys.  Both were FRAM.  Enough said for me.

[mrbigtanker]

I have to disagree with a lot of the information here. Up until a few years ago, I was a vehicle equipment performance manager for Toyota Manufacturing. I worked on all the performance test equipment to test the cars prior to delivery to the dealerships. I traveled the world and I got to play with some seriously cool stuff. I now work for Tesla Motors Manufacturing, creating the worlds future of electric automibiles. Different career path, same environment.

 

Although more pleats equates to more theoretical surface area, much more must be taken into account than just looks or pleats. Each filter is designed with specific attributes in mind. Pressure, fluid dynamics, temperature, valving, oil and filter composition are some of the main factors in filter design. Even length of use is a factor (typically those with less pleats).

 

Something I may have missed reading all the prior comments are micron capabilities. Although the Fram has less pleats than others, its micron count may be way more than the other brands being discussed. They also may not. The only true way to test a filters viability is to do an oil analysis with a baseline contaminant level. Essentially take a batch of oil with known particulate or PPM count, run samples through each filter and reanalyze the oil. Ask me how I know. Granted, each manufacturer uses different materials for seals, filter media and housings, but without a true benchmarking test, you guys are all guessing down to a personal preference or hearsay. Because of Non-Disclosure Agreements, I cannot tell you what product is better than others, but I can tell you a lot of the information here is inaccurate.

 

The reason automotive manufacturers specify and make recommendations on oil viscosity is to support the vehicles engine design, including the oil pressure, restrictions (filter) and temperature. Fram got a bad name a few years back because of the lack of a anti-drain back valves and haven't been able to recover. Yes, they use cardboard endcaps on some of their products, but they are oil saturation safe.

 

In case your wondering, for my engines, I use Wix, Mobile 1 and even Fram. They have good test results. Keep in mind "meets or exceeds" OEM manufactures recommendations is all that matters unless you are looking for something more specific. A big issue now is that many of the 50+ year old companies are finding out they can save money by using subpar materials.

 

Just my two cents.

 

OSVW

Go get em Hawaiian,they were giving a guy crap about his fram filter on his Robello motor that he is trying to SALE.

[datzenmike]

 

look at the big brain on brad 

 

:rofl:  :rofl:

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

 

Although more pleats equates to more theoretical surface area, much more must be taken into account than just looks or pleats. Each filter is designed with specific attributes in mind. Pressure, fluid dynamics, temperature, valving, oil and filter composition are some of the main factors in filter design. Even length of use is a factor (typically those with less pleats).

 

Something I may have missed reading all the prior comments are micron capabilities. Although the Fram has less pleats than others, its micron count may be way more than the other brands being discussed. They also may not. The only true way to test a filters viability is to do an oil analysis with a baseline contaminant level. Essentially take a batch of oil with known particulate or PPM count, run samples through each filter and reanalyze the oil. Ask me how I know. Granted, each manufacturer uses different materials for seals, filter media and housings, but without a true benchmarking test, you guys are all guessing down to a personal preference or hearsay. Because of Non-Disclosure Agreements, I cannot tell you what product is better than others, but I can tell you a lot of the information here is inaccurate.

 

The reason automotive manufacturers specify and make recommendations on oil viscosity is to support the vehicles engine design, including the oil pressure, restrictions (filter) and temperature. Fram got a bad name a few years back because of the lack of a anti-drain back valves and haven't been able to recover. Yes, they use cardboard endcaps on some of their products, but they are oil saturation safe.

 

 

 

 

I used our local Canadian Tire brand forever and recently found they were made by fram. About that time they also started making them in China. Well, there's enough reason for switching right there. I never had a problem with them but I also changed my oil and filters together and well before they needed changing, something that the average 10+ year old car owner doesn't do. This is also the type of owner that looks to save $2 on a crappy filter too. So if you change your own oil on time you ..... probably... won't have any problems. So if fram meets the minimum OEM quality then NAPA has to far exceed it and for $2-$4 dollars more I have a better quality filter and peace of mind.

 

Perhaps it all does come down to perception but when when I slip while mountain climbing I grab the thickest rope.

 

 

[c10jim]

I have been running Fram since 1981. I have never lost and engine yet. I also drive my cars hard. There is also a chance that I do not change my oil like I should. To each his own.

[ggzilla]

Fram make several filter lines. The regular red/orange filter meets OEM specs, but only filters 95% of particles per ISO Standard 4548-12. The Fram Ultra and Tough Guard filter out 99% of dirt.

[oldskoolvws]

Sorry everyone, once in a while I put on my smart cap. Most of the time I'm dumb. Just wanted to make sure both sides were heard.

 

Outsourcing is a huge issue with the aftermarket suppliers. They are all trying to save money. When we (consumers) think money, we think dollars. When manufacturers think money, they go down to the cents. Outsourcing to save a few cents equates to millions depending on how much is product is sold. You would be amazed at the profit margins. I guarantee you'd flip if you knew what it cost to make them filters, about 1/16 to 1/4 of your costs if that. A lot of manufacturers use the same suppliers (i.e. Denso makes just about everyone's heater cores now days). All they do is retool slightly and push out like products. This where you hear of Tier I, II and III suppliers.

 

How Its Made, FRAM of course LOL. Many of the issues people experience results from poor quality control at this level.

 

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[datsunaholic]

FRAM filters may have a better micron rating, but combine that with the reduced number of pleats you have the recipe for a problem.  A smaller micron rating means it would trap more particles- that's arguably good, BUT combine that with less surface area, it's going to plug up faster.  Combine that with FRAM's notoriously bad internal bypass valve, you have a filter that, if left in for "longer" periods, is going to be simply running bypass all the time.  The FRAM bypass valve seals against cardboard.  It's made of thin plastic.  They don't seal well after a couple heat cycles, let alone on a 50% clogged filter.

 

I stopped using them during the time the drainback valves weren't working.  Folks claimed Nissans didn't need them... tell that to my valve train.  15 seconds of clatter with a FRAM, vs maybe 3-5 with any other filter with a drainback valve.  Very few of my vehicles have vertical filters (and a couple of those are inverted which totally drain), but L-series are stock horizontal, so at least half or more drains out if the anti-drainback valve doesn't work.  Although admittedly a lot drains out the crankshaft too.  Maybe it's the other filters simply retain more oil due to more pleats, but the audible evidence alone would have convinced me.

 

Since I can get a WIX for less than the price of a FRAM,  there's no reason, save for an emergency, for me to use a FRAM.

[ggzilla]

I think folks were claiming the L-series engine didn't need a blocked-filter overflow valve. Of course it needs an anti-drainback valve. They may have confused the two type of valves.

[Laecaon]

To me, I can get a Wix/Napa Gold cheaper than a Fram any day of the week.

 

Plus Orange filters look weird in my engine bay. Ill stick with white or black (depends if I am buying Wix or Napa Gold)

[graveltrapp]

I really like the rust that seems to come on most New Fram filters, as seen in the opening photos, I recently got one home took it out of the box and there was visable rust on the threads and internals of it. Think I will be switching to Wix or Napa. Nice job cutting those filters, did you use a lathe?

[a.d._510_n_ok]

figured i would throw this in the mix. If you are running a wix 51515, fram PH8, Motorcraft FLA1, etc you can run the taller wix 51773 if you have the clearance in your engine bay. it allows you to run almost a full additional quart of oil. I also believe the additional length of the filter probably helps cool the oil but i got no scientific proof. I run the 51773 on my A10 as well as the slant six in my daughter's 1961 Plymouth. I would run it on the 260 SBF in my '64 Fairlane if i could but the frame rail prohibits the additional length so 51515 it is. I have used the 51773 on the two aforementioned vehicles for six years each with no issues!

[JoeCool]

Well, since it got dragged back up, If there is no NAPA near you and you have a CarQuest, their house brand of oil filter is made by Wix as well.

[Javin]

This has all be very educational. Thanks for the disassembled images.

[Mr.Clean69J13]

I run a Hastings brand oil filter in my J13, LF 134, I used to work at Ertel Mfg. Corp. also known as Engine Parts 1, and that is the brand we stocked

[Dolomite]

HRH, I googled ph8a cross reference a few days ago and this thread popped up. I knew I wasn't going put a shit can on it(fram was the only reference book I had available at o'reilly) and your post gave me piece of mind purchasing a wix, the less expensive 1515, thanks for the pics of those pleats.

[hobospyder]

Well, since it got dragged back up, If there is no NAPA near you and you have a CarQuest, their house brand of oil filter is made by Wix as well.

i picked up a wix filter at oreilleys last weekend so they sell them as well

[datzenmike]

You know, probably a good idea to buy one of these 'good' filters every year or so and cut them open to confirm the quality hasn't dropped.