Jump to content

510 suspension questions!


Five&Dime

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 39
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

  • 4 years later...

I've never heard of anything hitting the steering arm. Must be a ZX related issue, I have no issues with that using the S12 struts, but since I have some ZX struts waiting for my tender loving hands to turn them into my next suspension work of art (by that I mean Wal Mart and spray paint, and Hello Kitty stickers... lulz) I'll make sure to look into it.

 

If somebody has some pictures of the steering arm interference, I'd appreciate it. This is the first I've heard of it.

 

I also agree with using the spacers.

 

For those that don't know, when you lower a 510, it generally places the control arms straight out. When the LCA is parallel with the ground, it's at it's longest point in the arc. Which means it has the longest distance from strut center to mounting pivot center, which is why you get bump steer. Happens from the sudden change in distance from strut to center. When you hit a bump, it'll jerk the wheel out of your hands and if it's a hard enough bump, it can literally cause you to wreck. You will always have a change of distance if the control arm moves, but lowering without the use of spacers puts the control at the worst angle. The spacers simply return the control arm back to (or closer to) it's proper angle.

 

This is why I try and deter people from thinking that running 280zx steering knuckles, while they do work, as being an upgrade. It's not, it's just a safety hazard. Since they are shorter than 510 units, the steering ratio is faster. You also get a lot harder steering input. Being able to change lanes like in 2 Fast 2 Furious isn't exactly an upgrade by any means, and all it does it make your 510 prone to wander more, easier to lose control of, etc. Hit a bump or rut the wrong angle at the right speed, stock is more than efficient in murdering that thumb of yours that's stuck in the steering wheel - where it shouldn't be. Ever.

 

I have driven my dime easily half of it's life off-pavement, and while it's fun and all, I learned the hard way the first time - stay the hell away from ruts, because if it grabs a wheel, you are NOT going to hold that steering wheel, and it WILL rip out of your hands. And with shorter steering arms, it would only happen that much faster, that much harder, and be that much more difficult to regain control with. That was at 10mph, turning around. I don't want to be the fella' with his hand/thumb inside the steering wheel at 65mph on the freeway when something like that happens. I've heard stories of broken wrists/thumbs/arms.

 

I'm smart enough not to take that risk.

Thanks for all the advice here as well as the clarity. I was thinking that the z Knuckles would improve handling but if it can make bump steer worse then I am out. I really appreciate the the explanation. 

Link to comment

I just did 15x7 with no flares and it is tight. My last set of wheels were 16x6.5 and they fit a hell of a lot easier. I have 15x7 +40 w/195-55 on ZX struts. I am using a 30mm spacer so the net offset is +10.

Thanks for the math hope that works for me Im looking at positive offsets as a solution to running flares.

Link to comment

hello does anyone have pics of how camber adjusters are bolted in at top?? i just bought this dime and looks to me like they cut way to much out of the metal on the body >>??

suspention510.jpg

these are cut for the old square offset style ground control top hats. don't worry about the metal cut out, it will be fine.

 

 

I have s12 200sx front struts and they work great, well.. they were s12 200sx anyway.. these are shortened and run mr2 inserts.

image.jpg4_zpscgxgoota.jpg

 

 

I am running wheels with lots of offset and they do add lots of scrub, but the bump steer isn't bad,  I'm using a 1.5 inch bump steer spacer.

 

there is zero ackerman aftermarket knuckles you can buy that have short arms (drifting) but you'd also probably have to go to heim style tie rods with spacers to get rid of the bump steer.

Link to comment

Exactly why I've been looking into heim style tie rods.

these are cut for the old square offset style ground control top hats. don't worry about the metal cut out, it will be fine.

 

 

I have s12 200sx front struts and they work great, well.. they were s12 200sx anyway.. these are shortened and run mr2 inserts.

 

I am running wheels with lots of offset and they do add lots of scrub, but the bump steer isn't bad,  I'm using a 1.5 inch bump steer spacer.

 

there is zero ackerman aftermarket knuckles you can buy that have short arms (drifting) but you'd also probably have to go to heim style tie rods with spacers to get rid of the bump steer.

Link to comment

So i found this gem untouched, a few days ago...

280zxORD.jpg

 

 

 

After reading up... and kinda still scratching my head. I should snag the whole front suspension (which includes calipers, rotors, springs, strut towers, and possibly brake line) off this car, right? then also snag the rear discs too?

 

just want to be sure before i drop $ and time at the 'parts garden'

Get the  rims too if they arent curbed for the full zx look

Link to comment

I guess you did not notice this photo and thread are from 2012 ?????

No I missed that Abe, but I will triple check all chronological information in future to avoid seeing that many question marks at the end of a rhetorical question. Someone linked it to me actually but I am not so sure it was relevant.... 

Thanks for the heads up !!!!!!

Link to comment

Hello guys! Im a new 510 owner from Finland.

 

I couldnt find any "ready" coilovers for 510 from EU and its expensive to order them from the US.

 

So at the moment im thinking about buying S30 Z coilovers and weld 510 struts on them, any better ideas?

My friend has Toyota Cressida from -76 and he bought coilovers for AE86 corolla and welded the Cressida struts on them.

Link to comment

Coil overs are great if you plan to adjust your ride height twice a week, otherwise once you set the height where you like it you're drive around on expensive adjustable parts that never get used again.  This is money that could be used for something much more useful.

 

If lowering more than a few inches you will need to run shorter struts or shorten yours but if just several inches you can do what I did. Trim the bottom spring mount so it is free to slide up and down the strut tube. Grind away the weld so it is smooth. Support the bottom perch with inexpensive split collars and let the front down. So far all you need is a hack saw and/or an angle grinder and $25 (US) for2" split collars.

 

NOTE: your suspension will still travel the same distance on bumps and you are now 2-2 1/2" closer to bottoming out the strut. As all stock springs and suspensions are somewhat 'soft' to begin with it makes sense to run a stiffer spring. This will improve the ride handling and more important, resist bottoming out the strut. The 510 has a spring rate of 89 pounds per inch (lb./in) I would start with double that. Again what I did was apply some math to work out my 710 spring rate (100 lb./in) and trim away about one and a quarter coils to increase it to 150 lb./in. Yes, shortening a coil spring actually makes it stiffer. Just remember once cut you can't put it back. All you need is some multiplication and dividing and and a hacksaw/angle grinder.

 

Last:

If your old struts are original they will have oil bath dampers inside. Over the years these may have 'softened' from use. What I did was dump out the watery thin hydraulic oil and replace with motorcycle fork oil. In this case 20W which is much thicker and requires more effort to push through the internal valves. This increases the shock absorbing or dampening effect yet keeps the compression and rebound ratios the same. Usually people replace the oil bath dampers with generic inserts not made specifically for the car. BelRay 20W motorcycle fork oil about $20 US a liter... enough for three struts.

 

 

Just raise the front end and set the split collars below the now free to move lower spring perches and tighten them. Lower car and check height. Adjust as necessary till you are where you want it. Just remember this (and expensive coil overs) do NOT allow infinite lowering adjustment, keep it to 2-3" just to be safe. With the driver in the car the left side may sit slightly lower than the right so make a small adjustment up on the left collar.

 

 

So about $50 for adjustable ride height, firmer springs and renewed dampers.

Link to comment

Hi!

 

In Finland shortening the strut / spring does not work because we have this thing called "yearly inspection" where an engineer inspects your car and checks if everything is fine and you can drive a year again. Shortening the strut or spring is illegal so the car wont never pass the inspection.

 

I'm going to build a track day / street car so i think that the coilovers are best for that because they also give you more adjustments (camber, stiffness) and they are legal.

 

I can buy S30 240z track coilovers from my local dealer for 980euros (1075$) and the T3 front and rear would be 1575$ + 24% of VAT + customs.

So i was just wondering that is there anything so much different with the suspesion of 240z and 510 that those would never fit?

 

My last project was BMW E30 and it has the same thing that the hub and the struts are one piece, so the strut was cutted off from the hub, then a piece of metal with thread inside was welded on the hub so you could fit the new coilover with the same thread to hub. Found this picture from google, not my old but you get the idea.

 

http://dirtedrifting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/P1060560.jpg

Link to comment

No inspector will notice a split collar on a stock strut here, and we get inspections annually as well. Unless I went crazy low. Then they'd look just to see how we did it. But everywhere is different. If you make friends with an inspector, little things can be overlooked as well.

Link to comment

Yeah, i know that if you shorten the strut properly no one who doesn't know how long the original strut is will not see it but here is the thing when all the fun starts.

 

In here its totally legal to weld aftermarket coilovers to your original strut with all that shiny new stuff but shortening the strut or spring is illegal.

So if you would like to go the cheapest way in here you could shorten the original struts and then buy new shorter and stiffer springs.

 

In here also the minimum legal ride height is 8cm (3.15 inch) and i would like to go lower than that so it needs to be possible for me to raise the car for every inspection.

 

So i'm still going with those coilovers because of the adjustments and legal issues. So i found out that i can fit those S30 coilovers to my strut but does anyone in here know that is the upper end of the 240Z same with the 510? 

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.