Duncan's 71 "Oz" Goon

[Duncan]

Need some advice here.  My wagon had an L20B in it when I bought it.  The oil pan was in sad shape, so we straightened it out and painted it.  Here's the problem:

 

 

 

It rubs the center link.  I loosened all the mounts up and pulled the engine up as far forward as it would go.  I actually hooked a come-a-long to the front crossmember, then attached it to the trans mount, and it was pulled with some force. 

 

Everything on this wagon was done so poorly, I was wondering if an L20B will even fit into a 510 with the L20B pan on it.  I suspect that it may have been rubbing before.  I did put a newer/used centerlink in, and don't know if I kept the old one.

 

I'm not well versed in 510's like a lot of you, so I'm wondering if this could be the wrong pan..

 

Thanks! 

[datsunwizard]

So do you think it's a L20B oil pan? It's got to be a L16 510 pan to work correctly in a 510.

[mrbigtanker]

Need some advice here.  My wagon had an L20B in it when I bought it.  The oil pan was in sad shape, so we straightened it out and painted it.  Here's the problem:

 

 

It rubs the center link.  I loosened all the mounts up and pulled the engine up as far forward as it would go.  I actually hooked a come-a-long to the front crossmember, then attached it to the trans mount, and it was pulled with some force. 

 

Everything on this wagon was done so poorly, I was wondering if an L20B will even fit into a 510 with the L20B pan on it.  I suspect that it may have been rubbing before.  I did put a newer/used centerlink in, and don't know if I kept the old one.

 

I'm not well versed in 510's like a lot of you, so I'm wondering if this could be the wrong pan..

 

Thanks! 

I believe Datsunwizard is correct.

[Duncan]

Thanks.  see below.

[Duncan]

I know the pan has to be an L16 or L18.  My question is will a L20B motor (with the L20B pan) go into a 510, or is it too big to even fit.  I *was* thinking* that maybe the PO installed this in the wagon never noticed (or didn't care) that the pan was hitting the center link.  There has been so much half-assed work done on this thing, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

I highly suspect that the idler arm is from another Datsun.  If you measure center to center between where the idler arm connects to the center link, then to the idler itself, then do the same for the steering box, the idler is appx 1" longer.  That means the centerlink is farther forward on the left side of the car.

 

I discovered this just as I was getting ready to leave, but I need to check to see if possibly I got the mounting wrong when I put this back together.  I don't think you can mount either the steering box or the idler arm incorrectly, but I want to make sure before I replace the idler.  I'm also trying to arrange to meet up with one of my friends and measure out the steering components on his 510.

 

Thank for the replies, but I'm now pretty sure that it's not the pan causing the problems. 

 

 

 

So do you think it's a L20B oil pan? It's got to be a L16 510 pan to work correctly in a 510.

[datsunfreak]

I know the pan has to be an L16 or L18.  

 

No, it has to be a 510 pan. And a 510 pan only. Nothing else fits. All the other other pans (610, 620, etc) have a sump that is almost an inch longer.

 

 

My question is will a L20B motor (with the L20B pan) go into a 510, or is it too big to even fit.

 

Fits like a glove. 

 

 

Well, a glove with a 510 oil pan on it.   ^_^

 

 

 

Thank for the replies, but I'm now pretty sure that it's not the pan causing the problems. 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this is exactly what happens when you use a non-510 pan in a 510. 

[Duncan]

Thanks DF.  I'm going to measure everything carefully, but when you turn the wheel to lock to lock in one direction, it clears nicely.  The other direction, it hits.  It also hits much more on the left side, (idler side) which has the longer arm on it. I haven't spent much time on it yet, but that sure points to the center link NOT being parallel to the back of the pan.  I only hope I'm right because that's a much easier fix B)

 

I'm gonna grab a few measurements off of another 510 and than compare with mine.  I'll post up what I find. 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this is exactly what happens when you use a non-510 pan in a 510. 

[Duncan]

So, I am assuming with any other pan, then engine won't fit at all?  (As in, no way it's going to bolt in because the pan fouls in the front and the back?)

 

Sounds to me like it can't even mistakenly be mounted in there...

 

No, it has to be a 510 pan. And a 510 pan only. Nothing else fits. All the other other pans (610, 620, etc) have a sump that is almost an inch longer.

 

[datsunfreak]

So, I am assuming with any other pan, then engine won't fit at all?  (As in, no way it's going to bolt in because the pan fouls in the front and the back?)

 

No, what I'm saying is this...

 

1. None of the pans hit in the front. (except the A10 obviously)

 

2. The 610 pan will rub while steering. 

 

3. The 620 pan will rub/touch the steering link even when it's not steering. 

 

4. I have made both of those mistakes personally.  ^_^

 

 

All of them will allow you to bolt the engine in, but only the 510 will allow you to drive it. 

[Duncan]

Excellent sir!  That's exactly what I needed to know.  I still need to measure and see why the idler and steering box arms are unequal length, but I really appreciate the info!

 

No, what I'm saying is this...

 

1. None of the pans hit in the front. (except the A10 obviously)

 

2. The 610 pan will rub while steering. 

 

3. The 620 pan will rub/touch the steering link even when it's not steering. 

 

4. I have made both of those mistakes personally.  ^_^

 

 

All of them will allow you to bolt the engine in, but only the 510 will allow you to drive it. 

[Lockleaf]

This is the shape of a 510 oil pan. Maybe this will help.

 

 

[Duncan]

Thanks Lockleaf.  That certainly doesn't hurt having that.  I'm looking for a way to verify an oil pan as being from a 510.  Are there any dimensions listed anywhere?  I need to find the UFO archives and see if those have any info.  Fun, fun as always..

 

This is the shape of a 510 oil pan. Maybe this will help.



 

[hang_510]

My question is will a L20B motor (with the L20B pan) go into a 510, or is it too big to even fit. There has been so much half-assed work done on this thing, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

I highly suspect that the idler arm is from another Datsun.

 

Don't quit, it will fit!

Had an l20b in my wagon(stock 510 pan) and fit like a rubber glove. The weber got a shorter filter though.

 

Find a stock 510 idler and replace the bushings. Much nicer.

Went through 2 aftermarket that didn't hold up.

 

I may have a 510 pan. Let me know if you want me to go dig for it.

[Duncan]

Well okay.  Went to San Diego today and measured stuff on my wagon.  About 99.9% sure I have the wrong pan.  (Thanks again, DatsunFreak!) 

 

The steering arm and the idler arm (the ends that attach to the center link) on my wagon have different lengths.  How you can have mismacthed length arms and maintain steering geometry is way above my pay grade, but apparently this is std on a 510.  I measured the two centerlink  attachments points on each side of the car to a known spot on each side of the frame, and they are the same.  The steering box is more forward toward the front than the idler.   The centerlink has different movement if you turn left vs right, but again, this is apparently correct.  Can you say "ackerman angle"?

 

What's a little scary is that this swap was done, and someone thought having the steering components rub "just a little" on the pan was okay :)

 

Hang510, I did put a replacement Delrin bushing into my idler are when I replaced and rebuilt the entire steering system.  I *think* I got it from Experimental Engineering, if I remember correctly.  Like yourself, I'd rather rebuild original parts or use Japanese replacements whenever I can.  :thumbup:

 

I do have a couple of feelers out for a 510 pan and pickup tube.  If someone here has these pieces, feel free to let me know.   My front trans seal is leaking a bit on my trans, so I'm now going to pull out the engine and trans.  I'm not doing any more assembly until I get this fixed.  Kinda silly to put the fenders and front end stuff on if the engine is coming out.  Kinda silly to do this anyway if I'm planning on swapping engines, but I don't like half-assed crap. :poop:

 

And thanks for everyone jumping in here and helping me out.  You guys know a lot more about 510's than I do, and I appreciate your help!

[Duncan]

The back of this sump looks tilted in.  Is it safe to assume all 510 pans have the slant to it?  I'm going to see a fellow tomorrow who says he has a pan and a pickup tube.  I do trust him, but I have to pull the motor and trans and I need to make sure I'm getting the correct pan.  Thanks again for your help!

 

 

[Ratwagon1600]

Hi Mark.

 

It Was pointed out a bit earlier, but, if you are running the L20 motor it sits a lot taller in the engine bay.

 

Dependent on what carburetion you are running, you may have clearance issues with your air filter and the underside of the hood.

 

Im off to work in an hour (its 0530 hrs on a Thursday here) but if you need any measurements done on a stock oil pan or R/H drive 510 front steering etc, send me a PM and I can have a look tonight (or another day) if needs be.

 

I second the idea to replace the idler bushes. I have always run aftermarket bushes in my 510 steering idlers, and the difference in steering feel/response is definitely noticeable.

 

Are you running a steering box brace? These are also a worthwhile item. Im pretty sure I have a template of one somewhere that I could send you if you want.

[Duncan]

Thanks R-Dub!  The wagon came with an L20B installed already.  No hood clearance issues at all.  I drove it around (very seldom) for about a year.  It had the pan on it that is on now.  The front suspension was totally bad, and the brakes were downright scary, so that is probably why the center link slightly rubbing the pan went unnoticed by me.  Everything related to the steering and brakes has since been rebuilt or replaced. 

 

A few days ago, while I was removing the masking around the rocker panels, and I noticed some scraping on my freshly painted oil pan.  That's where I am today.  I'm trying to get me a quickie education on these pans before I do all the work to replace it.

 

However, if anyone has a car with a 510 pan and could verify that the rear of the pan is slanted like the above photo, it would help immensely..           

 

Hi Mark.

It Was pointed out a bit earlier, but, if you are running the L20 motor it sits a lot taller in the engine bay.

Dependent on what carburetion you are running, you may have clearance issues with your air filter and the underside of the hood.

Im off to work in an hour (its 0530 hrs on a Thursday here) but if you need any measurements done on a stock oil pan or R/H drive 510 front steering etc, send me a PM and I can have a look tonight (or another day) if needs be.

I second the idea to replace the idler bushes. I have always run aftermarket bushes in my 510 steering idlers, and the difference in steering feel/response is definitely noticeable.

Are you running a steering box brace? These are also a worthwhile item. Im pretty sure I have a template of one somewhere that I could send you if you want.

[datsunfreak]

I'm going to see a fellow tomorrow who says he has a pan and a pickup tube.

 

FYI, the pickup tubes are identical. It's just the pans that are different. 

 

 

Although, the later model engines did have aluminum pickup tubes which are hell of snazzy...   B)

[Ratwagon1600]

^^^^^ This is correct. 

[Duncan]

Well shit...Now I want hell of snazzy :thumbup:

 

I won't see it, but I'll know it is so...

 

Hey, super-thanks guys :w00t:

 

Although, the later model engines did have aluminum pickup tubes which are hell of snazzy...   B)

 

^^^^^ This is correct. 

[Lockleaf]

I can try to get to my pan tonight and take any additional pics you might like. It is slanted though. The cardboard cutout i posted is fairly accurate to the profile of the pan.

[BigBopper805]

I have an extra 510 pan if you need it it's all yours.

[KELMO]

Hell of snazzy.......the replacement slang for Hella for guys that are 50+

 

 

Keep pushing buddy, you're getting there.

[Duncan]

Ugh.  It's frustrating having to do this..

 

 

 

Did this all yesterday.  While this is out, I have new front and rear input seals for the trans, gonna clean up the L20B much better, and I can detail and buff out the engine bay, so it's not a total step backwards.

 

And thanks to EVERYONE for the kind words and offers.  I did get a pan, and was able to compare it with the pan on my L20B, so I'm sure it's the correct one.  So, I'm back down in San Diego on Tuesday.  The new/used pan is going into the hot tank for a few days, and it will get some fresh paint before going on.

[S30Jay]

Damn Duncan.

 

I hope this all goes back together without adding any patina to your new paint! The car is really coming out awesome though!

 

Makes mine look like a dog.