Jump to content

Sightings


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 11.8k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

I've always been fascinated by the sport compact sedan design similarities between the Cortina, Lada, Fiat 124, BMW 2002/E21 - E 30, and of course the 510. Although it's said that Pininfarina is the river that runs through this classic 3 box design, out of all these European cars, none came from the Pinin studio. In fact, only the Prince/Nissan/Datsun 410 and 510 were designed with Pininfarina's help.

 

I always bristle when some ignorant schnook calls 510s the poor man's BMW. You'll note that the 510 (with semi tracing arm IRS) stomped the (solid live rear axle) BMW 2002, and beat Europe in the 2.4 TranAm manufacturers championship 2 years running in 71' and 72'. 

 

BMW worked for 4 years, then introduced the e21 320i.  Notice Bavaria took the 510's four headlight grill and made it their iconic trademark look. They copied the 510's IRS as well. Also notable was the "refreshed" 75' 2002 that dropped the pouty round tail lights for a more aggressive rectangular lens, much like the 510's

 

So in all reality, the BMW was actually the slower man's 510.

 

 

Unknown-2.jpeg

220px-1981_BMW_320_2.0_Front.jpg

Unknown-1.jpeg

220px-1975_BMW_2002_(E10)_Tii_sedan_(18864236878).jpg

 

in 1982, my L20 510 auto-X car slapped the sauerkraut out of the all new 320i.

 

Nuff said.

 

 

.

 

 

Edited by paradime
  • Like 4
Link to comment
9 hours ago, paradime said:

I always bristle when some ignorant schnook calls 510s the poor man's BMW. You'll note that the 510 (with semi tracing arm IRS) stomped the (solid live rear axle) BMW 2002...

 

BMW worked for 4 years, then introduced the e21 320i. They copied the 510's IRS as well. 

 

So in all reality, the BMW was actually the slower man's 510.

 

Just one minor correction, the 1600/2002 was IRS, not a live axle. BMW used it before the 510 (starting in 1966). And it's basically the exact same semi-trailing arm design as a 510. I have no notion of who copied whom, but BMW definitely made it to market first. 

 

IMG_5622.jpg.e658ccad5f929c72fa53c36ca78

 

 

 

In truth, back in the early 70s the real "poor man's BMW" was the BMW 2002.  😄

 

 

And with the insane prices of 510s lately, it may very well be turning into the "rich man's BMW 2002"...

Edited by datsunfreak
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
17 minutes ago, datsunfreak said:

 

  I have no notion of who copied whom, but BMW definitely made it to market first. 

 

Well they say that imitation, is the sincerest form flattery....

 

Nissan also 'copied' the Mercedes valve train too. The Mercedes master link for joining timing chain ends fits the Nissan timing chain and I think the rocker arm on cam features are the same also.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
13 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

 

Just one minor correction, the 1600/2002 was IRS, not a live axle. BMW used it before the 510 (starting in 1966). And it's basically the exact same semi-trailing arm design as a 510. I have no notion of who copied whom, but BMW definitely made it to market first. 

 

IMG_5622.jpg.e658ccad5f929c72fa53c36ca78

 

 

 

In truth, back in the early 70s the real "poor man's BMW" was the BMW 2002.  😄

 

 

And with the insane prices of 510s lately, it may very well be turning into the "rich man's BMW 2002"...

 

Damn, it was the TransAm Volvo 122S that had the solid axle! OK from now on I'll edit that part from my Fuck BMW tantrums, but my SR20 510 is faster then my brother's M5, 🤨 so still Fuck BMW.  😏

 

 

IMG_2999 3.JPG

  • Like 2
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
On 10/18/2021 at 9:53 AM, datzenmike said:

 

Nissan also 'copied' the Mercedes valve train too. The Mercedes master link for joining timing chain ends fits the Nissan timing chain and I think the rocker arm on cam features are the same also.

 

It was Prince (who Nissan later bought/absorbed) did the design work on the L series engines.  'Tis true that they used Mercedes design as the basis.

 

 

 

On 10/17/2021 at 11:38 PM, paradime said:

I've always been fascinated by the sport compact sedan design similarities between the Cortina, Lada, Fiat 124, BMW 2002/E21 - E 30, and of course the 510. Although it's said that Pininfarina is the river that runs through this classic 3 box design, out of all these European cars, none came from the Pinin studio. In fact, only the Prince/Nissan/Datsun 410 and 510 were designed with Pininfarina's help.

 

 

Current story line is that Pininfarina did not due any design work on the 510, though they did on the 410/411.  510 was done in-house.

 

Referencing this link, though I won't personally vouch that everything they say is accurate either.

 

https://www.motortrend.com/vehicle-genres/c12-0606-1973-datsun-510/

 

This one is decent as well.

 

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2017/09/25/datsuns-510-a-sport-sedan-for-the-common-man-marks-its-golden-anniversary

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment

The 510 did replicate one of the Pinin Farina design defects.  They form the roof drip rail as part of the body and then spotweld the roof sheet metal into the rail thus leaving a full length open seam right in the rain gutter.  No amount of body seam goop will last the lifetime of a car.  Pioneered on the 410 and 411.  Ask me how I know.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
On 4/7/2008 at 8:05 PM, phatdave said:

I would like to see a thread here for SIGHTINGS.... you know when you see a car or truck out and about and are curious who it was.

Reason being I saw two Dimes pulled over on I5 S.B. this afternoon and wondered who it was.

 

Rather than use space on another thread, I thought a separate one just for that purpose would be handy!?

 

Anybody? I would do a poll but don't know how to do it.

 

 

 

dd:fu:

 

 

 

 

 

You're welcome 

 

 

 

 

.

Link to comment
On 10/27/2021 at 10:53 AM, bananahamuck said:

 

You're welcome 

Exploring common mistaken sightings has validity, no? 

 

Working under the 510 when a "Beamer guy" gave a complement on our nice 2002 😱. This shit happens, 

 

 

Edited by paradime
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
3 hours ago, carterb said:

Spotted in Mukilteo/Lynnwood, WA area by Jeff's brother.

Looks to be a Mexican-spec 510

Would love to see it in person and take in all the differences.  Note '68 style rear bumper, no rear side markers, '71 (ish) bluebird tail lights, etc.

--carter

 

 

The really weird part is live axle rear end and flat floor like a wagon...  😁

  • Like 2
Link to comment
6 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

 

The really weird part is live axle rear end and flat floor like a wagon...  😁

I think these are also J engines too. I've seen one at a few shows a while back. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment

Literally about an hour after posting that, one of my Datsun buddies Binh texts me - "Friend has a Mexican 510" "needs parts"

I sent him the picture I posted here, "This one?"  : )

"Yes"  "Haha"

 

So today I rounded up a bunch of parts and invited Thomas (the owner) over and gave him the parts and checked out the car.

 

large.1991992548_10312021Mexican510(1).J

 

On the outside - it is basically a 1971 Bluebird (same grill, taillights, bumpers, windshield trim (!) front markers, etc.  But J15 motor up front and wagon rear axle and gas tank in back.  This car had front disks but according to the build sheet, it was an option (drums standard).  Dash looks like a US car.  This car was re-painted and re-upholstered but Thomas claims - to his knowledge - this matches the factory upholstery. 

 

large.1412067302_10312021Mexican510(2).J

 

My '71 bluebird is the left.  I showed him the metal trim on my tail light lenses and asked if the Mexican cars had that from the factory.  He wasn't sure but did say his lenses were reproductions - which I have seen available on e-bay from "kentigo" .

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=kentigo&_armrs=1&_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=datsun+510&_sop=10

 

large.1105558125_10312021Mexican510(3).J

 

I had no idea the Mexican 510's had '71 bluebird grills.

 

large.1710396553_10312021Mexican510(4).J

 

large.826930513_10312021Mexican510(5).JP

 

Not sure if the "euro" markerlights were factory but I suspect they were.

 

Datsun 1500 denoting the J15 motor displacement

 

large.1314274421_10312021Mexican510(6).J

 

large.1907225524_10312021Mexican510(8).J

 

Such a tiny little motor - and apparently this is a J18 Thomas said they upgraded to.  ???

 

Look how the radiator is spaced back to be closer to the engine fan.

 

large.1082469868_10312021Mexican510(9).J

 

Lots of wiring harness differences to account for the ignition on the right hand side.

 

large.2048985486_10312021Mexican510(10).

 

I was trying to figure out if the wiper motor is different.

 

large.1026190903_10312021Mexican510(11).

 

Motor looks smaller - might just be because it's black.

 

Notice fuel comes up from the left instead of the right.

 

large.245917927_10312021Mexican510(13).J

 

large.91573551_10312021Mexican510(14).JP

 

large.868809772_10312021Mexican510(15).J

 

This is the upholstery I mentioned.  Note that the seat belts appear to be connected to the seats?!  They were also selected as an option on the build sheet.  4spd shift knob but this one's been upgraded to a 5spd.

 

large.907444164_10312021Mexican510(16).J

 

Don't be fooled by the lack of door/window handles.  Those were some of the parts I gave him from his list.  He just didn't have any when they did the upholstery.

 

large.183030151_10312021Mexican510(17).J

 

Here you can see the wagon gas tank, spare tire nest, and the solid rear axle.  Same as the wagon too?  I only see two leafs on the spring pack and the axle plates are just flat steel and only on one side.  Very different from ours.  Can't quite see how the shock mounts.

 

large.229470995_10312021Mexican510(18).J

 

Full length frame rails - unlike our sedans.

 

large.864006047_10312021Mexican510(19).J

 

'68 510 steering wheel.  Stock or changed at some point in time?

Note there are no heater controls!

 

large.130128329_10312021Mexican510(20).J

 

Left side ignition and "hazard switch delete"  : )

 

large.1632301930_10312021Mexican510(21).

 

Safe to assume the pop rivets are not stock.  : )

 

large.604184546_10312021Mexican510(22).J

 

NL510 chassis plate

 

large.1864987295_10312021Mexican510(23).

 

Weird filler strip under the grill.  Is that stock?

 

large.1828102880_10312021Mexican510(24).

 

So happy to have finally seen one of these in person.  Nice to meet you Thomas!

 

 

Edited by carterb
  • Like 6
Link to comment

large.229470995_10312021Mexican510(18).J

 

Definitely NOT a 510 wagon rear axle. This is a Salisbury type with the bolt on rear cover. The 510 wagon what an H-190 with a bolt in removable third member. The later 720 started using this style differential in the 4x4 (C-200) This one will be much smaller for a J15 but I can't find anything like it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Wow, that's quite a coincidence!

 

Here's a Mexican 510 sedan that showed up a at a local show. Owner said it has an L-series, but I never saw under hood. One thing I found interesting was the front bumper had these little amber lamps installed, and empty holes in the ends.  Perhaps they were a taxicab thing, or remnant holes for the Mexican version of the AMCO over-riders? Owner said the car came with the lamps, but I'm not certain we were communicating 100%. 

IMG_20210904_101334.jpg

IMG_20210904_101418.jpg

IMG_20210904_101435.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
18 hours ago, carterb said:

Here you can see the wagon gas tank, spare tire nest, and the solid rear axle.  Same as the wagon too?  I only see two leafs on the spring pack and the axle plates are just flat steel and only on one side.  Very different from ours.  Can't quite see how the shock mounts.

 

Shock mounts to a tab on the front edge of the plate. Same design as a US-spec wagon, just different manufacturer. Not sure what you mean by "one side" since almost all live axles only have them on either top or bottom?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
7 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

 

Shock mounts to a tab on the front edge of the plate. Same design as a US-spec wagon, just different manufacturer. Not sure what you mean by "one side" since almost all live axles only have them on either top or bottom?

 

Sorry, top side/bottom side.  I only see them on the bottom.  I'm used to a plate on top of the spring pack and a plate on the bottom of the spring pack.

 

large.1146628705_05312021ricewagon(4).JP

 

And see how the bottom plate has flanges for stiffness?  I don't see that on the mexi-plate.

Edited by carterb
  • Like 1
Link to comment
6 hours ago, carterb said:

I'm used to a plate on top of the spring pack and a plate on the bottom of the spring pack.

 

And see how the bottom plate has flanges for stiffness?  I don't see that on the mexi-plate.

 

Now I get you. Sort of wondering if somewhere along the way someone replaced those lower plates with something home built?

 

I've been under a few different Mexican 510s, but it was about 20 years ago...  😄

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.