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ol' 320

Anyone want to buy new 320 vent window rubbers?

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That's what they're saying but they haven't seen the gasket yet so it might be more complicated than what they know. 

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I haven't personally seen/handled one of the vent window seals out of the door, but I'd be massively surprised that an extruded shape would work for 85-90% of the seal (minus the formed corner). Consider the wind-wing engagement with the seal as it seats on the inside of the cab on the front side of the hinge and the outside on the rear side of the hinge. Also the mating channel is most likely different on the vertical division bar and the front/bottom of the door.

 

If the extrusion would work it sounds like it might be a do-it-yourself cut-glue-trim project for each owner.

 

Without handling one that is out of the door, I'd estimate the mold for the window seal would be comprised of 3-5 separate pieces (for each side) that would be assembled for injection of the seal material.

Edited by difrangia

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On 12/28/2018 at 11:18 AM, datzenmike said:

Well I imagine that there is the wing window and it's fitment without the rubber. Could IT be scanned to make a mold with a 3d printer??

 

What about  using a substance that is malleable but hardens like rubber? Mold by hand onto the wing window that's prepared with a non stick agent like lecithin or commercial mold release agent, let set and remove? 

 

No one wants to try this or something else??? Are all 320 owners so rich that they would send off the money for dubious results that you have ZERO control over. 

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Phil Muffet from AUS told me he'd send me 3D scans of the gaskets, but I bet they'd take a bunch of digital rendering to get them cleaned up to make a mold. 

 

I think one of the issues might be materials used for injection molding. From what I've read 60 Durometer EPDM can only be die cut, not injection molded. I'm not sure there exists something flexible and ozone resistant that can be injection molded. But I'll look around a little and write some emails. 

 

Regardless, I think the deal killer is going to be the upfront cost to get a batch of 50 made. Maybe we can do the legwork and figure an affordable option with decent margins and then pass if off to a Datsun or gasket retailer that will front the money, take the risk, and maybe make some profit? 

 

 

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There's not much of a market for 320 Datsun parts (yet), so I doubt anyone will stick their neck out to front the costs.

 

The price quoted you seems quite reasonable.

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I would be very careful when dealing with that Phils Rotory Products guy in Australia, he has a few very unhappy people in Australia and they live within driving range of him and he is not doing anything about it, and we are talking about thousands and thousands of dollars, all he has are excuses and does nothing about making it right.

Personally I will not have anything to do with anything that Phil has his hands in, if they show up on ebay already made and ready for sale by him then I would likely buy what I need as I could likely get my money back if the product dod not show up or was not what was advertised, but that guy is not someone I would give money to ahead of time directly or indirectly, the product has to exist before I give him money thru a source like paypal/ebay where he has no control on me getting my money back, let him give paypal/ebay excuses.

 

That said, the 320 windwindow gasket is quite complicated, if your talking about extruding straight pieces and then gluing them together it would likely take at least 5 different types of straight pieces, some would work both left and right, and the corner pieces/molds(maybe one corner mold would work, maybe), but then the hacking would start, of the 50 sets maybe 20 percent of us would even attempt to cut and glue ourselves and of that 20 percent maybe 1 or 2 of us would have a satisfactory result.

 

I only have the one gasket that has all the pieces that would give someone in the business an idea of what one is supposed to look like, it is by no means mold worthy, a few places the rubber has shrunk also, so even though it came out of a 320 wingwindow frame it likely is not the proper size in several places, especially where the rubber is thinner on the edges, the outside of this right hand side gasket is in better shape than the inside.

 

 

 

Edited by wayno

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Phil Muffet said he's moved on from the project but has offered to give me 3D scans. That's the extent of his involvement. 

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Again: I looked into this extensively. I think a molded "one piece final product" is the only practical/marketable solution. It needs to be a ready made report that is ready to install of at least OEM quality.

 

I almost certainly won't front money, but I will make a firm commitment to buy at least one finished pair of vent window rubbers if you can show me a finished ready to deliver product, assuming the cost is below $200 a pair.

 

I still have a 320 "in the family" that needs a pair!

 

I would like to see this happen. If someone gets serious and makes a commitment, I am happy to discuss offline. 

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May I suggest, if Phil Muffet or anyone else has a scan of some vent rubbers, that you start there.

 

Someone on Ratsun must know somebody within the USA who can scan some vent rubbers without shipping stuff overseas..... Anyone?

Edited by ol' 320

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 Surely you can scan a vent window and the door frame without the rubber. A CAD operator should be able to trim this to size on the outside. Then 3d print print a 2 piece reverse mold. Clamp together so there's a cavity and inject a urethane or polly matrix inside, let harden, split the mold open and viola. Someone's going to do this while you're fucking around.

 

Fuck overseas, figure it out!

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I do have an injection molding connection. Let me put the word out and see if he's at all interested in making some of these. He makes intake tubes, which keeps him busy, so I won't be at all surprised if he doesn't want to get involved.

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On 1/4/2019 at 11:45 AM, 320 Newb said:

Phil Muffet said he's moved on from the project but has offered to give me 3D scans. That's the extent of his involvement. 

 

If no one wishes to use those 3D scans for production can you post them somewhere so people can make them on their own?

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Put me down for a set whenever you make these. I’d buy a set of vent window rubbers today if they were available, and I’d another set just down the road for my other project. 

 

Please someone make it happen

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Could I get a copy of the 3D scan, so I can send it to my injection molding buddy? I asked him if he'd be willing to help, and he is interested.

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On 1/5/2019 at 6:39 AM, wayno said:

I would be very careful when dealing with that Phil Muffet guy in Australia, he has a few very unhappy people in Australia and they live within driving range of him and he is not doing anything about it, and we are talking about thousands and thousands of dollars, all he has are excuses and does nothing about making it right.

Personally I will not have anything to do with anything that Phil Muffet has his hands in, if they show up on ebay already made and ready for sale by him then I would likely buy what I need as I could likely get my money back if the product dod not show up or was not what was advertised, but that guy is not someone I would give money to ahead of time directly or indirectly, the product has to exist before I give him money thru a source like paypal/ebay where he has no control on me getting my money back, let him give paypal/ebay excuses.

 

6

 

You got the wrong Phil guys. My old Marouk account is locked out as i'd been away for so long i presume... but I'm Phil Muffet. I've never taken any money from anyone relating to Datsuns - nor do I run a rotary shop?? 

 

I don't know the guy you are talking about either way, but I'd appreciate if you edit that for prosperity cause your tagging the wrong Phil. He is in Brendale - i'm in Sydney. No idea of his last name. I posted sometime on here previously under my other account that I was never going to be accepting any money on the project also unless it was a saleable and good quality finished goods. Bit annoyed to be tagged otherwise.

 

I work in business/marketing completely unrelated to cars and collect cars/bikes as a hobby. Around 3 years ago I bought a set of good rubbers from Ted Heaton, and have since slowly been trying to scan and low-pressure mold "ok" replacements. I'm completely stuck on the "type" of rubber to use that can work my way, as such the past 18 months I've done bugger all as my day job has been pretty full on and any spare time i've had i've been playing with finished cars. I was attempting the method DatzenMike described and lost a lot of my work with a computer failure some time ago.

 

I have re-scanned this afternoon for Moses. The scan will need to be cleaned up. If someone is actually going to use it, I'm happy to put a bit more effort into scanning at greater detail with more accuracy. Have sent to Moses. No issues with it being shared around - I've moved on from this problem for the foreseeable future. My 320's are buried behind other toys so unlikely i'll be remotivated anytime soon on this.

 

*Edit - go here to grab the raw STL : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pD79BL2l9tYYCzJPWiTahyD_2INL4sgM  *

 

New scans will be at least 4 weeks away - as I'm traveling to the US tomorrow for business (Portland and then onto NAMM in Anaheim for any Pro Audio guys that might want to enjoy a coffee and chat in amongst the work)

 

Will be nice if this finally comes together as it is easily a decade old problem. 

Edited by Marouk6
softened response and added link to file
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On 11/23/2018 at 10:12 AM, wayno said:

320 Newb, are you talking about the Phils Rotory products guy in Australia whose first name is Phil that lives in Brendale Australia near Brisbane Australia or is this Phil someone else?

 

On 11/23/2018 at 10:56 AM, 320 Newb said:

I'm sure it's the same Phil.

 

I asked if it was the same Phil, if your not the Phil of Phils Rotory Products that lives in Brendale Australia near Brisbane Australia then your not the Phil I am talking about/have been talking about.

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43 minutes ago, wayno said:

 

 

I asked if it was the same Phil, if your not the Phil of Phils Rotory Products that lives in Brendale Australia near Brisbane Australia then your not the Phil I am talking about/have been talking about.

 

Yep. Not Phil Muffet (me).

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Wayno, I mistakenly assumed there was only one Australian Phil working on 320 wing window rubbers. Phil Muffet is a stand up guy--you should edit or delete those posts.

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It's not that there is one guy working on 320 wing window gaskets, it's that the Phils Rotory Products guy has already produced other aftermarket wing window gaskets such as the 521 wing window gasket that was on Ebay Australia, as I recall he was the first one with them, now they are coming out of Thailand and I wonder if they are the same molds.

I asked if it was the same guy and gave a location of that guy, you see I have a friend over in Australia that got screwed by that guy, and my friend was standing right in front of him when he told my friend that his parts were in Asia somewhere being copied and he could not get them back at that time, and enough time has pasted now to confirm he will never get them back.

1 hour ago, 320 Newb said:

Wayno, I mistakenly assumed there was only one Australian Phil working on 320 wing window rubbers. Phil Muffet is a stand up guy--you should edit or delete those posts.

 

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