Fisch's '71 510 LZ22 - "Chapman" Fogs and Bre Spook+art

[fisch]

If you can find good donor panels I would replace them. I assume the 4 door quarters are waaaaay easier then a 2 door.

 

Well your project is certainly an inspiration for me to tackle it Josh!

 

In reality, this 510 is pretty clean for an east coast 510. Really solid actually. Almost be a shame not to fix it. The only problem spots I know of are these outer QPs and a spot on the driver front fender. Doors are sweet. Rockers solid. Heck even the spare tire well looks pretty great as do the floors in general.

 

Here is what I am looking at. And it appears I can have replacement QP patches sent from Australia (which I hear are a pretty good fit) for about $400.

 

Driver front fender cancer in the normal spot. (Passenger front fender looks fine!)

 

Here is the replacement QP patch with a link.

Replacement QP ebay AU

 

Here is something strange. There appears to be about 1/8th of an of bondo on the rear driver corner. (You can see where some chipped off behind the signal.) So thick we lose some of the center body line back there. Chris bought it that way so it has been like this since the early 90's.

 

But when we look in the trunk at the same corner, it doesn't look that bad at all. A little dented. Looks like a bit of body hammer denting in one spot. But not enough to warrant this much frosting!

[Josh K.]

I would just hammer it out.

 

If your going to go through the trouble of replacing the lower section you might as well just call James and see if he has a complete 4 door quarter panel. No weld and you could have it off the car in under 2 hours....

[fisch]

I would just hammer it out.

 

If your going to go through the trouble of replacing the lower section you might as well just call James and see if he has a complete 4 door quarter panel. No weld and you could have it off the car in under 2 hours....

I asked James about it a while back, but he didn't have any spares. I imagine James needs every solid QP he can find lol! Especially since 4-doors and 2 doors are the same from the wheel back!

 

Plus I imagine shipping on 2 full QPs would be pretty costly! I need to save up some coin and try to do something about it.

 

But your thread is really inspirational and makes me want to tackle it!

[mklotz70]

Amazing offer Mike! If we lived in the same place, I imagine we would be collaborating a lot my friend! My daughter would be calling you Uncle Mike by now.

I'd be getting wacom lessons in trade...that would be really awesome!! :) I've often thought about taking 3 weeks off work and taking a "fisch'ing" trip :)

[hobbes_the_cat]

I like where the bodywork is going, looks like a lot of it is saveable with some hammer work.

how do you like the plywood carb spacers? any trouble with leaks or bolts getting loose or de-laminating of the ply? It looks like a really good idea.

[Icehouse]

Fishman the supersonic line fades near the back on all cars. I can't tell from the pic if it's the proper amount though. Like me and Frank always say. "You can only see one side at a time" :)

[joker72z]

Fisch,

 

Not sure if anyone had pointed you to these guys but they are pretty darn close as Montreal is East Coast and straight north from you almost.

 

http://www.alfaparts.net/dat510.html

 

Nice project by the way.

 

Chris

[fisch]

Fisch,

 

Not sure if anyone had pointed you to these guys but they are pretty darn close as Montreal is East Coast and straight north from you almost.

 

http://www.alfaparts.net/dat510.html

 

Nice project by the way.

 

Chris

 

I have seen those, but what I loved about the Aussie ones is that they wrap all the way around the the back panel. And a couple hundred less. The Alfa ones look great because you geet the entire fender and more, but thankfully my sheetmetal in front of the wheel is really solid.

 

(I am hoping when I have the time and cash, I can talk someone on the west coast into cutting some off a parts car, maybe trading for a custom drawing of their Datsun!)

[fisch]

I like where the bodywork is going, looks like a lot of it is saveable with some hammer work.

how do you like the plywood carb spacers? any trouble with leaks or bolts getting loose or de-laminating of the ply? It looks like a really good idea.

 

Hobbes, I wish I could say how well the plywood spacers work from personal experience, but I haven't drivin it enough! But I can say that Chris (the P.O.) drove this thing to hell and back. Up across canada , down to the DC area, and he kept pretty daily diaries and never seemed to have an issue with them. So they seem pretty road tested. Ratsun ingenuity!

[fisch]

how do you like the plywood carb spacers? any trouble with leaks or bolts getting loose or de-laminating of the ply? It looks like a really good idea.

 

Some more info on the spacers for you Hobbes! Chris checks in on this thread once in a while to see where I am at with Chapman (thanks Chris), and wrote me a little e-mail:

 

"Those carb spacers were constructed out of teak marine plywood (I got some scraps from a local boatyard). They were cut and tapered to reduce the 46mm Z carbs to the 38mm SSS intake, as well as adapting the 4 bolt Z carbs to the 2 bolt intake. After fabrication I treated them with epoxy to seal them for use, per the recommendation of 510 enthusiast Randy Marshall (see details below).

 

The spacers have held up for the life of the engine (70K plus miles over several years, both daily driving and extended highway). No delamination problems. There was some scaling of the epoxy coating in the tapers, but that cleaned up nicely and never posed an issue. The only other issue I had was some slight scorching of the corner of the spacer right beside the #1 primary on the exhaust, likely from extended highway travel. Sorry I couldn’t find any fabrication pictures.

 

chris s.

 

From Randy:

 

I used Gudgeon Bros. WEST system epoxy, though there are a number of other

products that would do just as well, i.e.: System Three, Raka, and EAST

system. The difference in epoxy products is primarily in the hardener. The

stuff you get at the hardware store in little tubes is too thick to saturate

the wood well. You need an epoxy that when mixed with the hardener is thin

(viscosity-wise) like water, then it will saturate the wood rapidly. You

just keep painting it on until the wood stops soaking it up. System Three

used to sell a trial/repair kit for about $10 that would be enough to do a

couple carb adapters. Small quantities of boat building epoxy are otherwise

hard to come by, and in larger quantities it does get expensive for a small

project. Here's a link to the Raka home page, they're my product of choice

these days, but I'm not sure how small a quantity you can get from them.

 

Raka Epoxy

[fisch]

So I thought I'd try my hand at panel beating. I've never done it before, but here is a reminder or what I am dealing with in both quarters.

 

I thought about ordering the Aussie panel patches, but then awesome member Yellowdatsun gave me a great deal on some banged up patches he'd saved, and shipped them to me acros the country. You can't find this kinda gold in New England! Thanks Yellow! I knew they'd need some hammering, and was excited about trying my hand at it.

 

To give you an idea of what were looking at in more detail. Some wrinkles but virtually no rot. (Of course I am not going to beat out the bumper line, though it does look like a wrinkle!)

 

Cool thing is that Yellow cut the inside metal too and even a bit of trunk floor. This is great as I don't know what I will be looking at when I take a can opener to the dime.

 

I've done a lot of reading on panel beating, and have a great bro-in law who restores cars. The first thing I needed to do is separate the outer from the inner QP. So I needed one of these:

 

You drill a 1/8 hole in the middle of the factory spot welds and then use a cutter or spot weld bit to cut out the weld through the outer panel.

 

And they pop apart like this! Lotsa dirt and surface rust in there.

 

Here are the beating tools I have. The coolest one is that metal spoon spatula thing I snagged at a flea market. Home made and very helpful. I used a fat cresent wrench wrench for a dolly too great for the curved tight spots. Also I have a Jawhorse which is great for holding things in place.

 

One more shot of this puppy before we beat it out.

 

And the result after about an hour and a half.

 

And here is how the other side came out.

 

When will I get to welding them in? Who knows. I don't own a welder :(, but I am window shopping. I have a cousin and my bro inlaw (in Indiana) that could do it for me,but it be great to do it myself!

[fisch]

Now I also have a patch for the front fender, but haven't worked on it yet. Some serious booboos but no rot. It was basically free from Yellow so I thought I would try to save it too!

 

Now my question for the experts is how do a separate the inner fender from the outer? I figure there are some spotwelds along the bottom but you see the fold along the edge (the top edge in this photo). Do you just pry this up with a chisel?

[Bob3]

Nice work!

[Jester]

HOLY SHIT, AN UPDATE!! :D :D

 

Go Scott.

[67 411]

Hey looks like u got the hang of it quickly. I think its fun doing that stuff yourself. Great job.

[mklotz70]

great work buddy!

 

To separate....maybe a cutoff wheel down the inside....about an 1/8" in? Usually when guys are taking door skins off, they just grind the tight edge until the two separate, then peel the inside strip off.....but they're not looking to reuse the panel.

[Duke]

Now my question for the experts is how do a separate the inner fender from the outer? I figure there are some spotwelds along the bottom but you see the fold along the edge (the top edge in this photo). Do you just pry this up with a chisel?

 

This is how I did mine a few years back. There are also a few spot welds along the top that have to be removed. When you pry the fold up only go enough to get the inner fender out. That way when you but it back in you can just use a hammer and dolly to flatten the fold over the inner fender again.

[goes2fast]

Now I also have a patch for the front fender, but haven't worked on it yet. Some serious booboos but no rot. It was basically free from Yellow so I thought I would try to save it too!

 

Now my question for the experts is how do a separate the inner fender from the outer? I figure there are some spotwelds along the bottom but you see the fold along the edge (the top edge in this photo). Do you just pry this up with a chisel?

 

Eastwood has some special tools for separating panels, they are a very good source for for restoration tools and supplies.

[Jester]

TP Tools is pretty good as well. I purchased a Hutchins DA sanders from them at a damn fair price. Seem to be aimed at the hot rod customers.

[Gary]

very cool :D

 

that little drill bit thing is sweet, i might have to get me one of those when its 510 time

[fisch]

Thanks for the insight guys! Heh I was so excited to have real update to make. My wife was laughing at me. The spot weld cutter is sweet, but there are two main styles, and I would have rather have the other I think.

 

The one I have is like a miniature hole saw, the blade is reversible 1/4 on one side, 3/8 on the other. The teeth broke off the 1/4 side almost instantly. The 3/8 got it done, but was bigger than needed. I dipped it in oil to help cut too.

 

The other style is a short drill bit that is flat on the bottom with a little self tapper sticking out. I'd think it It'd be tougher and also as it cuts the spot, it removes all the metal on the front panel, while the hole saw leaves a plug from the front panel still attached to the rear.

 

Do you guys think sandblasting these panels would be a no-no? The metal is so thin on dattos, I'd fear the heat will warp them. That is some tough grit on the inside, wire wheel and sandpaper flapper did little to them. Some kind of coating?

[Gary]

thanks for the insight on those drill bits :D

 

sandblasting is killer, it introduces a lot of heat into the panel which warps it, but worse than that it can work harden the steel making it extremely difficult to work with from then on

 

using other media for blasting is cool though depending on what you use. i couldnt get a lot of info on it when i was looking into it, you can use anything from plastic pellets to walnut shells, to bicarbonate soda

 

speaking of which soda blasting is awesome-o for blasting stuff like paint on metal panels, the only downside is i hear repainting it is tricky. i looked into it years ago so it might be sorted out by now, but blasting a metal surface leaves a kinda coating (and ionises it or something), which is great to keep it rust resistent for the short term but come time to paint it, a lot of the time primer wont adhere properly. at the time i was looking into it, house of kolor and PPG voided their warranty if their paints were used on soda blasted surfaces. at the time people reckoned washing the surface with soapy water worked, but i dunno if it really did. soda blasting works wonders though, so if you can figure it out it'll likely be the best way to go

 

theres a discussion about it here if you want to peruse:

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/once-all-wiki-soda-blasting-162700.html

[Jester]

Hey Scott, you may want to ask James what he uses for his blast media.

[the510keeper]

I think the fender fold is just glued, and because your are trying to keep the outer panel grinding that wrapped lip away would be a bad idea. mklotz70 has a good idea about cutting the inner panel at the edge of the wrap, but then u still have to open that wrapped edge a little to remove the inner panel. So you might want to hold off on cutting so you have the inner panel to pull on to remove it from the fold.

 

Yes sandblast is a great way to clean them. Just stay back 4-6 inches helps keep the heat down, and use a finer sand we use 60grit instead of 30. Most use 30grit because it goes faster. If you do get a little wrapage it is going to be nothing compared to the welding you will be doing.

 

Hope this helps

[fisch]

I think the fender fold is just glued, and because your are trying to keep the outer panel grinding that wrapped lip away would be a bad idea. mklotz70 has a good idea about cutting the inner panel at the edge of the wrap, but then u still have to open that wrapped edge a little to remove the inner panel. So you might want to hold off on cutting so you have the inner panel to pull on to remove it from the fold.

 

Yes sandblast is a great way to clean them. Just stay back 4-6 inches helps keep the heat down, and use a finer sand we use 60grit instead of 30. Most use 30grit because it goes faster. If you do get a little wrapage it is going to be nothing compared to the welding you will be doing.

 

Hope this helps

 

Indeed! Thanks James!