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Ka dohc head on l20b


RAlly_DatoB210

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Ok I inherited a datsun 510 and bought some 44mm itbs and a square port 4 to 1 header for it. Now the question stands can I use ka parts and z parts to build a high revving ka/l motor? I have a good dohc head and a really fresh l20b motor bone stock. Is this possible? And I want to build it for torque then turbo it while still running the itb set up. Where do I even start on this?

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What are your skill levels? Can you weld, fabricate one-off parts, tools? Do you have a garage with work space for this? Have you done similar work like this before? What experience do you have and what do you know about the L and the KA series motors? Do you have time for this? Do you have the money to see this through?

 

If you answer just one of these:

 

I took auto shop

My friend's dad has a welder and tools

I live in an apartment complex

I know how to swap motors, I have read all about it.

I owned a B-120 for years

I have time after school

I can get a job after school and can put $50 a week toward this.

 

.... then it would be quicker, easier, cheaper, better results if you swapped a KA motor into the 510.

 

 

If you have 'built' similar motors and custom made parts to install it, have a large, clean secure work area, including tools, welder (minimum MIG or TIG), have worked extensively with the L20B and the KADEs, have evenings and weekends free (basically have no life) and good cash flow.... then yes it can and has been done with a KA24E head and with a turbo. Made about 250 RWHP.

 

That's 186.5 kilo watts or 185,500 watts. 1 hp=746 watts so divide 186,500 by 746 to get ..... ? horse power

dyno3.jpg

 

jfkka.jpg

 

KA24DE add about 20% more difficulty.

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man it must be my lucky day thus far in the Q and A section haha

i answered yes to those but i would take them a few steps further..

i basically do all the auto work for everyone its something i just took way to much interest in. i have a good 2 hundred plus hours under the hoods of various cars doing everything from transmission swaps (i'm on my 3rd for my b210 :P). btw i have some college experience in auto shop from my local com college. i can weld but i'll admit i'm a bit of a hack. i graduated hs with my aa degree and some credits to spare. yeah no life looser status achieved. basically i work 2 jobs now and have money to burn. moved out of my apartments into a trailer so no rent or bills. i also live within ten minutes either direction of two datsun geniuses. they put the idea of the lz22 into my head but i want something different. i know its going to be hard but i'm up for a challenge and have enough help and go to people for when i get hung up. (not if when) and the magic of the internet which i probably spent a good 3 hours a day just reading about datsun stuff like way way to much screen burn to the eyes until i kinda got some ideas. it started out as a bit of a pipe dream someplace in between looking at the lz race motor and then reading about the similarities between the L the z and the ka.

logically if the u67 L head fits a z block- and then if the ka24e is basically an update of the z24 which will take an L series head why cant i put a dohc ka head onto a z24 block and then well why couldnt i just put that on a l20b? casue that lower end is TOUGH and can handle boost well. the compression would be lower like 6:1 or 7:1 from what i imagine and most of everything lines up between the head and the block. there are a lot of really strong well built ka turbo's making some insane numbers. but i want to be different because this is a ratsun. not some brand new sports car

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The KA24DE head presents timing chain and dual cam drive chain problems that the KA24E doesn't. The E head is much closer to the L and Z cam drive. And to be honest an E head 12 valve will breath way way way more than a tiny 2 liter will ever need. If a turbo is added than multiply that by 1 Bar :lol: I think two KA-E cam sprockets could be welded together so that the L or Z series double chain could be used. A KA-DE would have to use the single chain for sure. But hey, that's just me.

 

I don't have a DE head to mess with but the KA24E does have an oil drain back hole that will conflict with one of the L/Z water passages. So it has to be welded up. May not be a problem with the DE head????

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I always liked the idea of a KADE head on the L series. ITs expensive though. I would like to do it one day in the future but I will have to wait.

 

I have both a KA24DE(240sx) head gasket and an L16 head gasket, everything lines up. Its questionable whether any welding of holes in the head is needed at all. The bigest problem is the cam drive Like Mike says. The aussi's have done it a few times. Search on ozdat. I read the whole thread a while back. They use the FWD KA head because the 240sx head is very rare there. The Dizzy hangs off the back of the head and causes all kinds of clearance issues.

 

I think the cam drive was accomplished by swapping around L Z and ka crank sprockets and chains. Then removing a few links from a Z chain to form the lower chain and using the KA stock upper chain.

To the point I read they were un-sure weather or not they needed to weld up the hole they did in the FWD head.

 

Then your going to need custom pistons with the KA valve pattern with a smaller bore and high wrist pins. Maybe base them on SR20 or RB pistons with different pin sizes.

You are also going to need custom rods. The nice long Z22 rods are really hard to find plus probably would not fit the pistons you find or have made.

 

So ~600 - 1000 for custom pistons + 600 - 1000 for custom rods. You can get a stock KA for less than 500 if you wait for the right one.

 

Does the header you have fit the KA head?

 

I would start with the turbo on it if you were going to turbo. Because your going to build the engine to be turbo'ed to begin with.

Why not just build it for high comp and super high revs? Maybe a 9k rpm screaming hybrid 2Liter?

 

 

Or the stock KA is rather cheap and can be done in a few weekends of free time. Or maybe one weekend of all day and nighters. Its a big improvement over stock. A tune, headers, big maf, bigger injectors and cold air intake will make the KA do nearly 200hp to the wheels.

 

The 510 really can't make use of much over 250-300hp. I would build something that was fun to drive and lasted a while rather than a trailer queen, hill climb, or drag car...

 

Putting the KA head on just for the EFI parts would be a big improvement though.

 

 

-Avery

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Then your going to need custom pistons with the KA valve pattern with a smaller bore and high wrist pins. Maybe base them on SR20 or RB pistons with different pin sizes.

You are also going to need custom rods. The nice long Z22 rods are really hard to find plus probably would not fit the pistons you find or have made.

 

I think he plans a stock L20B bottom end. So this has an 11 cc dish as compared to the KA pistons and small diameter valves. I don't see any clearance problems.

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Ok I bought a toasted out ka motor a while back for seventy bucks and I played around with it rebuilt everything that was siezing it up changed all the gaskets and perplaced a few bits and pieces. It was far from a full rebuild by all means a totally half ass job. Thy was before I had a job or any motives let Aline the 510 for that matter. I was just sorta curious what all was going on in there. I looked up the similariteis on ozdat and from a picture I saw almost no difference. I did a complete top end rebuild On a ord focus as well as helping with a Toyota picup. I have friends with hay wired 300zx's that are always being torn down an put back ogeter. I know this project is probabaly way over my head but I'm really determined to be, dare I say it, the first to build somethig like this in America? Haha I can dream right? I feel like atleast the only one running around on the washington coast. Lol speaking of I thing the rusty ocean ate up all our datsuns. We used to have a dealership in my town or so I've heard and there are way to many sad car carcasses. So let's get to work. And no it's an l series header. But I'll trade for parts to get this off the groud?eh eh? I don't want some undriveable pile of engine grenade either. It doesn't need to be street worthy and drags are no fun. I'm talking about a rally car. :)

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Yea,someone needs to find that old aussie writeup and make it a sticky. There was a guy who slapped a KA head on his L16 so he could turbo it. Cant remember if it was an e or de but with a turbo it wont matter much, Cant imagine any purpose for this other than being able to keep the same motor mounts and tranny without any tranny tunnel mods.

its cool but it will still look like a KA when you open the hood. To me personally,I like to see the old school low power L equipment customized for mega oomph if someone has the means to get crazy. Its vintage and still looks classic under the hood. KA SR FJ...its all been done,ka head on a L block and it still looks like a KA but puts out way less power?? WHY??

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Boosted ka sounds like my route to go. More reliable better power everything is just more appealing. I could do all the work myself too. Maybe my b210 could get some love out of the deal and build the 510's l20b and just keep it for fun. I just want to say I have it done. Ha that's a really dumb reason to sacrifice both reliablity and power but I would keep weight balance cause right now it's perfectly split. What kind of power could I expect from built na lseries on a reasonable budget?

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Ok I bought a toasted out ka motor a while back for seventy bucks and I played around with it rebuilt everything that was siezing it up changed all the gaskets and perplaced a few bits and pieces. It was far from a full rebuild by all means a totally half ass job. Thy was before I had a job or any motives let Aline the 510 for that matter. I was just sorta curious what all was going on in there. I looked up the similariteis on ozdat and from a picture I saw almost no difference. I did a complete top end rebuild On a ord focus as well as helping with a Toyota picup. I have friends with hay wired 300zx's that are always being torn down an put back ogeter. I know this project is probabaly way over my head but I'm really determined to be, dare I say it, the first to build somethig like this in America? Haha I can dream right? I feel like atleast the only one running around on the washington coast. Lol speaking of I thing the rusty ocean ate up all our datsuns. We used to have a dealership in my town or so I've heard and there are way to many sad car carcasses. So let's get to work. And no it's an l series header. But I'll trade for parts to get this off the groud?eh eh? I don't want some undriveable pile of engine grenade either. It doesn't need to be street worthy and drags are no fun. I'm talking about a rally car. :)

 

 

Boosted ka sounds like my route to go. More reliable better power everything is just more appealing. I could do all the work myself too. Maybe my b210 could get some love out of the deal and build the 510's l20b and just keep it for fun. I just want to say I have it done. Ha that's a really dumb reason to sacrifice both reliablity and power but I would keep weight balance cause right now it's perfectly split. What kind of power could I expect from built na lseries on a reasonable budget?

 

Thank you for sobering up enough to write your second statement. :lol:

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I kinda want to get into the dohc business. I've seen the ausie one in pictures and would love it see it driving or atleast hear it run. Would it be better to build up a ka24de for turbo or use the under rated ca18det? I called on two cl adds and just want to see what the best option overall would be

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the L series blocks are lighter then the ka blocks but to build it would be more money, I think you would be better off starting with somthing that is turbo already if money plays into it. the CA18DET is a cool motor but more expensive to build than a sr. If it where me id go CA but thats me. pauter rods are spendy and i belive thats the only rods that they make for the ca and l series. I have heard somthing about using KA rods in the L series but not sure.

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i want to say and dont quote me... but i wanna say the flat top 12 valve ka24e rod and piston combo might bring up compression? idk. you would need a bore of 88 mm though and thats getting time to sleeve the L block if you plan on boosting. i'm a fan of N/A power but i have none. i think a supercharger would be the way to go if i could find a small enough one to run. i feel like whatever i start making will still get walked on my even the jankiest of turbo cars. thats why i want to go ka/l cause it seems like it would be an amazing combo if done right.

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Well if you really think about it. Putting the DOHC KA head on an L series block is a total waste. Because you just end up building an SR or KA with different displacement, compression ratio and rod/stroke ratio. If you end up spending more to do it, than it takes to mod a SR or KA to said compression or rod/stroke ratio, its a loss.

 

The only real negative to the SR is that not all part are available here. Sure some places import stuff but you can't get them next day let alone today.

The only real wins to the KA head on the L block is shorter stroke crank availability and ease of bolt in to 510's and other Datsun's.

 

The KA may be a little heavier than the L or Z block because its taller, So what its taller. A little more displacement never hurt anyone.

 

 

 

 

-Dime

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yeah as the quote goes there's no replacement for displacement. i think the sr really needs a price drop becasue 2-3k to get it in my car is overkill. the 240 kids have really fled the ka for whatever reason and i think its a really good motor. you can get them balanced and built to rev then with a turbo and the right cr you have WAY more power than a built sr. i still think for the potential and price not to mention availability of all these parts between the Ka L and Z motors (think how many datsuns and nissans rusted out before the motor gave in?) i could have a pretty decent motor built from a comb of all of them. the machine work will bite me in the ass but my dad knows a guy with a shop and would get it to me for cheaper. i still think its going to be price but i would say the cost should be about half an sr for similar output. building a ka would be good but to build it for turbo its'll cost another big chunk of money. fully built with good cr and built for turbo and rev's a price estimate would be in the ball park of? i want to say under 2-3k cause i'm putting parts at next to free or under 5 hundy and that leaves the machine work. total cost has got to be less

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The KA may be a little heavier than the L or Z block because its taller, So what its taller.

 

Not just taller. They're wider and have a lot more metal at the back where it bolts to the tranny. The 240sxs have heavy crank girdles under the longer stroke cranks. They are about 100 lb heavier, so that's 100 extra lb on the front end of a 510 or whatever.

 

KA24Eblock001Large.jpg

 

KA24Eblock013Large.jpg

 

KA24s have been done. They're nice I like them, but if you've seen one...... Now an L20B with KA head would be something to see.

.

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