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Feng Shui (The 510 Experiment) (Pics fixed through page 7..)


Josh K.

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Thanks guys!!

 

On 8/2/2018 at 6:06 AM, q-tip said:

Been a long time coming!

 

you ain't kidding... ?

 

I drove it to work today (8min from my house..) It was fun. Needs an alignment bad which I'm getting tomorrow.

 

image.thumb.jpeg.82010b668fd3a26a57f2ca74a284ed22.jpeg

Edited by Josh K.
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Thanks guys! I've been driving it a bunch!

 

Took it to get an alignment today and this evening I changed out the driveshaft u joints since they were a little sloppy. Sunday I'm gonna take a long road trip to shake it down. Next weekend is Blue Lake and I'm gonna try and go. It's 320 miles round trip..

 

IMG_20180803_100124.jpg

 

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On 8/4/2018 at 9:04 AM, ]2eDeYe said:

Man, all that effort to add those flares and to have it pay off tenfold. So badass. 

 

I agree!!! Thanks.

 

I've been trying to isolate this vibration/nasty growl on off throttle and decell in gear. I found a bunch of stuff that needed attention but it kept getting worse. Finally it started whining in 5th gear a little also.. I drained the tranny oil and it was dark gray/streaky and the drain plug has a pile of metal particulates.. shitty.. I'm thinking to make sure I'll refill the tranny, clean the drain plug and drive the hell out of it and drain the oil again. If it's nasty I'll just take it to a tranny rebuilder. I don't want the run of bad luck on used tranny's like @jephybuilt had. Might as well bite the bullet and just rebuild it? We'll see. Depressing. I don't want to pull the damn motor again...

 

IMG_20180805_095925.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Josh K.
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20 hours ago, Josh K. said:

 

I agree!!! Thanks.

 

I've been trying to isolate this vibration/nasty growl on off throttle and decell in gear. I found a bunch of stuff that needed attention but it kept getting worse. Finally it started whining in 5th gear a little also.. I drained the tranny oil and it was dark gray/streaky and the drain plug has a pile of metal particulates.. shitty.. I'm thinking to make sure I'll refill the tranny, clean the drain plug and drive the hell out of it and drain the oil again. If it's nasty I'll just take it to a tranny rebuilder. I don't want the run of bad luck on used tranny's like @jephybuilt had. Might as well bite the bullet and just rebuild it? We'll see. Depressing. I don't want to pull the damn motor again...

 

 

I think I went through 3 transmissions and one rebuild before I finally found one that is pretty quiet and doesn't grind.  I got really good at pulling the engine, but it was damn frustrating.  I have pretty much resigned to the fact that the transmission will never be silent in my car.  I think that the combination of little to no sound deadening, more solid mounts, a single piece drive shaft, and a lightweight flywheel make the transmission quite a bit louder that you would expect.  I also found that the transmission was louder with an aftermarket clutch installed.

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1 minute ago, Duke said:

 

I think I went through 3 transmissions and one rebuild before I finally found one that is pretty quiet and doesn't grind.  I got really good at pulling the engine, but it was damn frustrating.  I have pretty much resigned to the fact that the transmission will never be silent in my car.  I think that the combination of little to no sound deadening, more solid mounts, a single piece drive shaft, and a lightweight flywheel make the transmission quite a bit louder that you would expect.  I also found that the transmission was louder with an aftermarket clutch installed.

 

I have a 13lb flywheel and aftermarket clutch.. I'm sure it doesn't help..

 

I grabbed a loaner transmission from Jeff last night that I'm going to try. If the noise goes away then I'll know it's my tranny...

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On 8/6/2018 at 11:31 AM, Josh K. said:

 

I have a 13lb flywheel and aftermarket clutch.. I'm sure it doesn't help..

 

I grabbed a loaner transmission from Jeff last night that I'm going to try. If the noise goes away then I'll know it's my tranny...

 

I found that when I switched from an aftermarket clutch to a stock clutch it quieted down the transmission quite a bit.  From some of the research I did on this matter, I think the noise is more related to gear chatter than bearings (although it really sounds like bearings when you're driving!)  People theorize that there is a harmonic above 3,000 rpm that travels from the engine through the transmission and then is reflected back from the diff to the transmission.  When off throttle and the gears are back loaded, the problem is exacerbated.  Harmonics like these are the reason some OEM's use things like guibo's in the driveshaft and dual mass flywheels.

 

I am interested in hearing how you deal with this issue, as it is one of the things in my car that always nags at me. 

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On 8/6/2018 at 2:28 PM, Duke said:

 

I think I went through 3 transmissions and one rebuild before I finally found one that is pretty quiet and doesn't grind.  I got really good at pulling the engine, but it was damn frustrating.  I have pretty much resigned to the fact that the transmission will never be silent in my car.  I think that the combination of little to no sound deadening, more solid mounts, a single piece drive shaft, and a lightweight flywheel make the transmission quite a bit louder that you would expect.  I also found that the transmission was louder with an aftermarket clutch installed.

 

On 8/6/2018 at 2:31 PM, Josh K. said:

 

I have a 13lb flywheel and aftermarket clutch.. I'm sure it doesn't help..

 

I grabbed a loaner transmission from Jeff last night that I'm going to try. If the noise goes away then I'll know it's my tranny...

 

59 minutes ago, Duke said:

 

I found that when I switched from an aftermarket clutch to a stock clutch it quieted down the transmission quite a bit.  From some of the research I did on this matter, I think the noise is more related to gear chatter than bearings (although it really sounds like bearings when you're driving!)  People theorize that there is a harmonic above 3,000 rpm that travels from the engine through the transmission and then is reflected back from the diff to the transmission.  When off throttle and the gears are back loaded, the problem is exacerbated.  Harmonics like these are the reason some OEM's use things like guibo's in the driveshaft and dual mass flywheels.

 

I am interested in hearing how you deal with this issue, as it is one of the things in my car that always nags at me. 

 

I'm not the only one!!!! 

 

My supposedly rebuilt trans in my KA swap is really loud on decel in 4th and 5th... and even 3rd above 3k. Running a Fidenza light weight flywheel, spec stage 1? clutch (id have to go back and check what I bought hahaha) and a 3" aluminum drive shaft. 

 

I dont think its quite as loud outside of the car... but inside the car with no interior and poly mounts its loud as shit! 

 

Been keeping my eye out for another trans to swap in and see if it helps... but sounds like it may not make a difference. 

 

Although I still need to go in and check the pinion angles to see if that helps at all.

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On 8/8/2018 at 7:51 AM, demo243 said:

 

 

 

I'm not the only one!!!! 

 

My supposedly rebuilt trans in my KA swap is really loud on decel in 4th and 5th... and even 3rd above 3k. Running a Fidenza light weight flywheel, spec stage 1? clutch (id have to go back and check what I bought hahaha) and a 3" aluminum drive shaft. 

 

I dont think its quite as loud outside of the car... but inside the car with no interior and poly mounts its loud as shit! 

 

Been keeping my eye out for another trans to swap in and see if it helps... but sounds like it may not make a difference. 

 

Although I still need to go in and check the pinion angles to see if that helps at all.

 

I swapped out the tranny and same sound of a rock crusher in the shift tunnel... I bought a stock flywheel for $89. I'm putting my old tranny in with stock flywheel and we'll see how that works!!

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The clutch also plays a roll in this, as the sprung hub helps dampen harmonics coming from the engine.  My thoughts are that that stock clutch springs are tuned to the harmonics much better than an aftermarket clutch.  

 

Because my engine maybe puts out 10% more HP than stock, I can get away with running the stock clutch...with the turbo though, you might be SOL.

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27 minutes ago, Duke said:

The clutch also plays a roll in this, as the sprung hub helps dampen harmonics coming from the engine.  My thoughts are that that stock clutch springs are tuned to the harmonics much better than an aftermarket clutch.  

 

Because my engine maybe puts out 10% more HP than stock, I can get away with running the stock clutch...with the turbo though, you might be SOL.

 

The clutch I bought luckily is sprung. I'll pull it apart tonight and make sure it's not damaged.

 

https://frsport.com/exedy-06805b-high-performance-stage-1-clutch-kit-s13-s14-ka24de-motor

 

Here's the flywheel I'm using now: https://frsport.com/act-600365-streetlite-lightweight-flywheel-s13-s14-ka24e-ka24de

 

Stock is 21lbs. The one I have is 13lbs..

Edited by Josh K.
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1 hour ago, Josh K. said:

 

I swapped out the tranny and same sound of a rock crusher in the shift tunnel... I bought a stock flywheel for $89. I'm putting my old tranny in with stock flywheel and we'll see how that works!!

 

Rockcrusher! that is the best way I've heard to describe the noise... drives me crazy. 

Interested to see how the changes affect it. 

 

Are you running a stock shifter or short shift? I was reading on some of the 240sx forums that the B&M shifter I have can cause some more noise too... don't have a stock shifter to try though...

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1 minute ago, demo243 said:

 

Rockcrusher! that is the best way I've heard to describe the noise... drives me crazy. 

Interested to see how the changes affect it. 

 

Are you running a stock shifter or short shift? I was reading on some of the 240sx forums that the B&M shifter I have can cause some more noise too... don't have a stock shifter to try though...

 

I have the Megan knockoff. I can't feel anything in the shifter though. It's smooth..

 

Being that I have solid rear diff mount and spherical control arm bushings it makes this problem sound like the tranny is gonna explode and rip the car in half. It's not something I can tolerate so if the flywheel doesn't fix it then I'm pulling the diff and CV's and switching to half shafts to see if that helps.

 

I just wanna drive it ?

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3 minutes ago, Josh K. said:

 

I have the Megan knockoff. I can't feel anything in the shifter though. It's smooth..

 

Being that I have solid rear diff mount and spherical control arm bushings it makes this problem sound like the tranny is gonna explode and rip the car in half. It's not something I can tolerate so if the flywheel doesn't fix it then I'm pulling the diff and CV's and switching to half shafts to see if that helps.

 

I just wanna drive it ?

 

My B&M is pretty notchy... and doesn't like 5th much. 1-4 are smooth ish... but 5th will grind unless I go slow. Doesnt always like to go into reverse either. Also for reference I am running Redline MT-90 in the trans and Royal purple in the rear diff (4.11 LSD)

 

I'm running halfshafts and some old rubber rear diff bushings.... and it sounds like mine is just as loud as yours so Im not sure half shafts will help at all.  I was running the energy suspension poly trans mount, but threw in a GM rubber mount with hardly a difference. Still running poly McKinney motor mounts though. 

 

I think @Duke is on to it with the harmonics issue... probably not helped by the partially counterbalanced crankshaft. I wonder if an upgraded damper would do anything?  ATI ?? drop some cash? But yea to Dukes point... I think there are some harmonics going on that are then amplified by the lightweight flywheel, aftermarket clutch, big aluminum drive shaft and tin can of a car... 

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1 minute ago, demo243 said:

 

My B&M is pretty notchy... and doesn't like 5th much. 1-4 are smooth ish... but 5th will grind unless I go slow. Doesnt always like to go into reverse either. Also for reference I am running Redline MT-90 in the trans and Royal purple in the rear diff (4.11 LSD)

 

I'm running halfshafts and some old rubber rear diff bushings.... and it sounds like mine is just as loud as yours so Im not sure half shafts will help at all.  I was running the energy suspension poly trans mount, but threw in a GM rubber mount with hardly a difference. Still running poly McKinney motor mounts though. 

 

I think @Duke is on to it with the harmonics issue... probably not helped by the partially counterbalanced crankshaft. I wonder if an upgraded damper would do anything?  ATI ?? drop some cash? But yea to Dukes point... I think there are some harmonics going on that are then amplified by the lightweight flywheel, aftermarket clutch, big aluminum drive shaft and tin can of a car... 

 

Yeah mine shifts smooth. 5th is kinda noisy on decell, 4th all hell breaks loose, 3rd slightly less.

 

I'm almost 100% it's the flywheel. The car drove great with this tranny and stock flywheel..

 

As soon as the new input housing gasket gets here we'll find out.

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With the 225 R1R's and 0 Offset 15x8's I had clearance all the way till the control arm bottomed out on the spring pocket. I then switched to -5mm offset rims and it rubs up front of the wheel opening.. I raised the car up and still rub since it squats so bad on the back right under power..

 

IMG_20180809_083642.jpg

 

So I bought some 205/50-15 RE71R's... My R1R's were seven years old and honestly the 225's felt heavy and clunky.. Like wearing big heavy boots after wearing sandal's for a few weeks..

 

IMG_20180809_085130.jpg

 

 

225 R1R's have a full 8" tread width and really flat patch.

IMG_20180809_085154.jpg

 

205 RE71R's have a rounder patch and a 7.5" tread width.

 

IMG_20180809_111915.jpg

 

No more rubbing even with the control arms hitting the body....

 

IMG_20180809_111953.jpg

 

Clearance!!!

 

IMG_20180809_111511.jpg

Edited by Josh K.
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1 hour ago, Josh K. said:

 

5th is kinda noisy on decell, 4th all hell breaks loose, 3rd slightly less.

 

 

Yea mines similar. 4th is the worst. 5 is loud, 3 is higher in the RPMs. 

 

Hate to change the flywheel though... one its a pain... but with the aluminum driveshaft and the lightweight flywheel the engine revs QUICK

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16 hours ago, demo243 said:

 

Yea mines similar. 4th is the worst. 5 is loud, 3 is higher in the RPMs. 

 

Hate to change the flywheel though... one its a pain... but with the aluminum driveshaft and the lightweight flywheel the engine revs QUICK

 

That is consistent with how mine is.  I'm guessing 4th is the worst because it is basically a direct drive straight through the transmission, giving the harmonic a direct path to resonate through.

 

On a 240sx there is a rubber coupling in the driveshaft.  My guess is this is there to help dampen the harmonics and quiet the transmission (along with the heavy flywheel, stock clutch, soft transmission and motor mounts, rubber mounted shifter...etc).

 

A few years ago I installed an ATI damper on my KA.  I don't know if it was the placebo affect, but it felt like there was a noticeable difference in how smooth the engine ran.  There may have been a small change in the transmission noise as well, but it didn't eliminate it all together. 

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Likewise with my trans. For reference I'm running the "white bunny" clutch/flywheel which is by no means light. If I'm not mistaken it is a D21 flywheel with a solid surface sprung clutch.  In typical ratsun fashion I've reduced the noise by adding sound deadening in the form of a moving blanket folded over a couple times to the tunnel. I don't have much other sound deadening and no carpet so it is generally a loud vehicle to be in.

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  • Josh K. changed the title to Feng Shui (The 510 Experiment) (Pics fixed through page 7..)

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