4G63 510

[jeffball610]

Saturday I got the car dialed in on the new Silver Mine suspension and got an official weight for the car. Sadly, all that suspension tuning didn't turn into fast times at autocross on Sunday. I'm still figuring out how to drive and it's definitely tail happy at the limit. Turn in seemed better and the car set better on turn in, so something is working right. Now I just need to tune the nut behind the wheel.

 

Rave reviews were given about the Futofab front control arms and the Byron's brackets out back. The tuner is familiar with the 510 and does set up work for major race teams and manufacturers, so I'd take his word on it.

As far as the Silver Mine coilovers, they seem to work as intended. I think the front springs being 4k might be a bit soft, but the shock adjustment is in the middle, so I'm sure I can stiffen it up a bit. The rears are 5k and we raised the car about 1/2"+ from the Specialty Engineering springs I had previously. I'll keep driving it to provide more feedback. I might try to do the National Solo event in 3 weeks to get more seat time. Sadly I don't have any in car video from the event, as the video files seemed to have been corrupted or something.

[jeffball610]

I took the plunge in my search for cruise control. I just ordered an Audiovox CCS-100 from eBay (fingers crossed). It's a "sealed vintage unit" for $170 shipped. Better than the $230+ places are asking for new units or the Rostra units out there. I'm hoping it works on a turbo car. I'll get a chance to find out while the world is in quarantine and hopefully this summer on a drive to the NW at Powerland if it's still going on.

[jeffball610]

Here's some video of the car on the dyno from October. It made 285hp at 10psi and 345hp at 14psi on a Garrett hybrid GT3067R.

 

 

[jeffball610]

I just returned from a 1,907 mile road trip. Before leaving, I made a few "improvements" to the car. The first was the previously mentioned cruise control. It was not as simple as expected. The directions are pretty basic and aren't quite accurate. I ended up finding an alternate tach signal than the directions listed and had to adjust the signal to compensate beyond what the directions list. That being said, it works great and I think it actually improved my fuel mileage.

I mounted the unit in the cowl area using rubber mounts to isolate any mechanical noise that might get transmitted into the car. The control panel is mounted inside of my center console to keep it out of eyesight.

 

The next item was more of a safety thing. I've wanted to add a high mount brake light for while. The 510 is by no means the smallest car, but soccer moms still have trouble seeing it. I got my unit from an early 90s Civic sedan. The rear window radius is close enough. I had to create a mount to lift it up and have something to attach it to my rear shelf panel.

 

While I was in Colorado, I also attended a local Solo autocross event. I'll have some video of that up soon as well.

[jeffball610]

Here's the autocross video 🙂

Edited June 9, 2020 by jeffball610

[slowlearner]

10 hours ago, jeffball610 said:

Here's the autocross video 🙂

 

It's telling me the video is private. 😞

[Lockleaf]

Nice work on the high mount

[jeffball610]

It's been quite a while since I've updated. I missed a summer trip due to some wiring issues, but did a 1000+ mile round trip to Datsunville in October. not much has changed, but I have some things in the works. For now, here is some autocross video from last weekend including a bad spin. I need more tire. And more skill 😋

 

LVRSCCA Round 5

 

[Aaron Datsun]

Did you get that spin in right at the beginning?

[jeffball610]

On 11/19/2020 at 9:59 PM, Aaron Datsun said:

Did you get that spin in right at the beginning?

Yeah. It was basically the first cone on the slalom. Boost hit right as I was starting to turn. I didn't even bother trying to save it other than to keep it out of the wall and off of their shins 🤪

[Aaron Datsun]

I was at High Plains when. I had a faster guy behind me and forgot what my pace should be and entered a turn about 20nph faster than my skill would allow. I ended up off the track and in the dirt. Keep crushing it dude.

[the510keeper]

Looking good man, parts in the mail soon 

[jeffball610]

Wow! 2 years and no updates!? A lot has happened in that time. I'll post some of those changes soon, but here is the most recent update (still in progress)

 

Z32 front calipers! The Z31 units I've been running seem a bit weak and I don't have a good pedal feel. Over the years I've tried 7/8 and 15/16 MC with and without the B210 booster. I had some Porterfiled pads as well, but have switched to basic cheap pads to try and get some better pedal feel. Nothing has really helped. So, here we are.

 

It's a little tight to the wheel and it probably wouldn't fit without the 12mm spacer I have on there. But these wheels aren't exactly made for brake clearance. I have some new wheels planned as soon as I can figure out how to get some good fender flares on this thing.

 

The Z32 calipers will hopefully provide more brake pedal feel due to more piston area filling with brake fluid. Being a more common caliper, they also provide more upgrades for pad compounds if needed. I certainly don't need this much brake for a 2300lb car, but with 325whp (or more), it certainly can't be overdone.

 

I'll post more updates soon. I can't believe it's been 2 years 🤦‍♂️

[datzenmike]

What 'feel' are you after?

 

A properly working booster simply increases you pedal input pressure producing a 50% in hydraulic line pressure. Basically less effort for more braking. I would always run a brake booster. It reduces fatigue in stop and go driving. Anything that makes it easier to get stopped is a good thing.

 

The larger the master cylinder the more effort needed for the same braking and the shorter brake pedal travel will feel like stepping on a brick. A smaller master will reduce the effort but the pedal will travel farther and seem mushy. Some feel a longer travel makes it easier to modulate closer to brake lock up

[jeffball610]

51 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

What 'feel' are you after?

 

A properly working booster simply increases you pedal input pressure producing a 50% in hydraulic line pressure. Basically less effort for more braking. I would always run a brake booster. It reduces fatigue in stop and go driving. Anything that makes it easier to get stopped is a good thing.

 

The larger the master cylinder the more effort needed for the same braking and the shorter brake pedal travel will feel like stepping on a brick. A smaller master will reduce the effort but the pedal will travel farther and seem mushy. Some feel a longer travel makes it easier to modulate closer to brake lock up

Yep. I've been through all of this and it's great info and advice.

 

Currently, my brake pedal is rock hard and requires a high level of effort to produce braking force that also seems inadequate. Maybe I'm just used to mushy "soccer mom" pedals, but it seems much higher than I'd like. It is also quite difficult to modulate for threshold braking on track.

 

My thought was to switch to larger and more caliper pistons to have longer pedal travel for the same braking force at the wheel. I don't know if the booster I had simply didn't work right or I was doing something wrong, but it didn't seem to make any difference in pedal feel or travel. I really need to know what the brakes are doing in order to stop safely. Especially at high speeds. Which are easily and routinely seen in this car.

 

If this doesn't work, I'm taking the advice of another member and changing the pickup point on the brake pedal arm for increased leverage.

[jeffball610]

The first test drive wasn't impressive. I definitely need to bleed the brakes again, but they didn't feel much better. I'm sure the pads need bedding too, so all is not lost yet.

 

On a brighter note, a random encounter with a fewllow DSM enthusiast landed me this plug cover. Now people shouldn't have to wonder what engine is in the car. Although it does self-identify with pronouns baddass and fuckyeah 😋

[datsunfreak]

On 2/3/2023 at 2:43 PM, jeffball610 said:

I don't know if the booster I had simply didn't work right or I was doing something wrong, but it didn't seem to make any difference in pedal feel or travel.

 

It pulls vacuum off the engine to function properly. I believe there needs to be some sort of one-way valve in it for a boosted application. Did you have one? If not, when it comes on boost the power brakes don't work. Was your booster hooked straight to the intake?

 

Or consider a vacuum tank (or better yet a vacuum pump) in the line somewhere to hold vacuum for when it's on boost?

 

It may be tough to adapt, but you can also try a hydraulic booster that runs off a power steering pump on the engine? This is becoming a common mod for boosting cars that aren't meant to be boosted.  😁

[datzenmike]

The one way valve is there to keep any vacuum in the booster. If the engine stalls and your vacuum supply is gone the stored vacuum is sufficient for one or two brake applications. In this circumstance it's not a good idea to pump the brakes and waste it.

 

The one way valve is pulled open by engine vacuum so if disconnected or under boost it's closed. When you let off the gas manifold vacuum rises considerably so even without a valve, it would work the booster by the time you got your foot on the brake. Of course it's best to have the one way valve in line.

 

Like I said the booster increases the foot pressure on the master by about 50% and this increases the line pressure by this amount. Takes away that 'stepping on a brick' feeling. You can't expect high performance braking with the same foot effort. Is there a Datsun made after the 510 that didn't come with a booster? Not counting the 1200 most Datsuns gained 500-700 extra pounds too. No car today comes without a brake booster. 

 

 

[datsunfreak]

6 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Is there a Datsun made after the 510 that didn't come with a booster? Not counting the 1200 most Datsuns gained 500-700 extra pounds too. 

 

Yes, only the 1200 and 510 had non-boosted brakes. Oddly, in other markets the 510 and 1200 were available with power brakes, just not in North America. 

[datzenmike]

They are so light. Under a ton for the 1200 and just above for the 510. My 710 weighs 2,860 with me in it. The law of 'You Can't Get Something For Nothing' applies. Heavier car need more braking effort same as having car full of adults is harder to stop than when empty.

 

47210-26700 is the part number for the 510 4.5" Master Vac. It's not clear if an option or not but they were available.  The 610 and 710 used the same Master Vac unit. They look the same as the 510 but not the same part number.

 

If nothing else a booster reduces fatigue. Something that is welcome at the end of the day or in stop and go traffic,

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

My grey market Land Cruiser has a booster on the clutch! Americans are bigger I guess...

[datzenmike]

Christ remember the old GM clutches before diaphragms were used?

[jeffball610]

On 2/21/2023 at 7:56 AM, datsunfreak said:

It pulls vacuum off the engine to function properly. I believe there needs to be some sort of one-way valve in it for a boosted application. Did you have one? If not, when it comes on boost the power brakes don't work. Was your booster hooked straight to the intake?

Yes I had a one way valve. I tried one from a Z car and another from a Volvo that was the right size. I used the same port on the manifold the original booster line was hooked to. It's 3/8" I believe. I'm thinking I just had a bad booster.

 

All that being said, the Z32 calipers seem to work better. Pedal pressure feels good and I have some modulation. I do need to adjust my proportioning valve a bit, as I think the rear brakes are still locking before the front. I hope to get some track time on these calipers to get a better sense of how well they work.

[datsunfreak]

38 minutes ago, jeffball610 said:

I'm thinking I just had a bad booster.

 

That or a stuck valve, but if you tried two...

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Christ remember the old GM clutches before diaphragms were used?

The clutch in my 1980 K30 dually is much like this. Stiff and heavy.