510 Brake issue?

[izzo]

Brake issue.

 

Bled all my brakes, good fluid coming out of them. Master is still full, not losing any.

 

Problem is I have to pump my brakes for them to work, i am thinking its the rear that has the problem. The front ones have tons of pad, the rear looks to have good pad left. So, have to pump my brakes, then they work fine. If i pull the e-brake, first off it comes out quite a ways, if i pull it out a little ways and apply the brakes the back ones grab like they should. It looks like the e-brake cable has been adjusted all the way (or maybe i am looking at the adjuster wrong?). Today i took the passenger rear tire off and thought i would have a hard time getting the drum off, but it came off very easily and is a bit sloppy. Theres no adjuster like my 720 :\

 

 

Any ideas? I can take a pic of the adjuster tomorrow.

[I'm BLUE]

hmmmmmmmmmmm , suspecting the master if your fronts have tons of pad , and it may appear to be that the rear brakes are not adjusted properly ?

 

(1) Bleed all fluid out again ( I bleed mine until master is clear as water :D )

(2) Check rear cylinders ( peel back dustboot , sometimes are bad without suspecting or seeing fluid , check for seizures too must have a buddy to see this :) )

(3) Adjust Rear Brakes/Measure Rear Drum Specs

(4) Drum Adjuster malfunctioning ? ( fords have this problem )

(5) Sticky front calipers , Take off , Clean really good , lube , re-assembly checking for seized or irregular wear patterns.

(6) Look for Brake Fluid between Master/Booster ( sometimes they leak out the back when bad and sometimes blow by internally mal-function )

(7) Check Front Disc Brake Pad wear pattern ( to indicate operation of Calipers , they say a lot ! lol )

 

If the master is good , and the rear brakes ( have good amount left ) are not adjusted ---> they should lock up or work normally with more pressure , not have to pump to get all 4 corners to work ?

 

I don't know how hard you have to pump or how many times ? Does the pedal feel soft or you have to build pressure for all 4 brakes to work ? ( master cylinders can bleed off pressure or leak between booster and cylinder itself )

 

Check rear wheel cylinders as well as for anything obvious seized ---> I have a bad feeling that if you have a LOT of pad left on front , and still have to pump brakes that it is pointing towards the master.

 

I do know out of adjustment rear brake shoes ( drums ) can cause a similiar scenario , but shouldn't have to be pumped to work or hold pressure IMHO , but IDK ?

 

I am no brake man , but is the brake system a "split" ( front/rears seperate ? ) system or not ?

 

Ok ball rolling :D

 

Pics Please ? ( Is it Disc Front and Drum Rear or ? )

[banzai510(hainz)]

I do know out of adjustment rear brake shoes ( drums ) can cause a similiar scenario

 

this is the proplem. 510s dont have auto adjusters.

 

You find a 7mm wrench then turn the adjuster IN. Since its square in the inside yourll turn it 1/4 turns. What it does is expanse the top cylinder.

 

Ok if its hard to turn youll need to clean and lube up the adjuster.

I had one where I was using a vise grip to try to turn it. I had to take the drum off and pull the little slotted cups out where the brake shoe slot fit in the cup. Find out the cup part was seized up inside. I got a punch and cleared it out. the that square 7mm adjust was EZ to turn after that. I also anitiseize compound it.helps from water rust issues also.

 

iwould you pull the parking brake a ceratin amount,what it does it takes up the slack. thats why it seems better when the parking brake is pulled a certain amount.

[sssr20det510]

adjust your rear brakes first

[izzo]

DTP, Hainz, Jeremy, thanks!

 

I am heading out now to check it out again. Ill jack the rear up and get the tires off n double check it. Ill try and find the square thing you were talking about hainz, looks pretty easy to take apart compared to my 720 thats for sure!!

 

i didnt know it had adjustment, i thought it was auto adjusted. the 720 ones are a lot different lol. You just take a screw driver and turn this spline deal and it adjusts them.

[banzai510(hainz)]

yes there is a squarepeg near the top of the drum. At least with the 2/4dr sedans Unless a 510 straight axle wagon is like a 521 with a thumbwheel type adjuster at the lower part of the drum.

[izzo]

OK, that's what i wasn't getting. I didn't know the adjuster part was on the backside of the drum (top backside at that)

 

I found the little square thing you were talking about, tightened both up matching as much as i could both sides, brakes work great & so does the e-brake now. Thanks guys. Ya, it was a noob mistake :blush: But now i know how to adjust them. Didn't think there was an adjuster lol....

[oneta22]

:blink:nice ill try that thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have the same problem,,,but new master and w/c i would have to pump till the pedal had pressure and bleed it till the fluid look like water.....lol....iam going to talk to my mechanic......

[izzo]

[I'm BLUE]

Still having issues ? :huh:

[yello620]

 

Resurrected an old thread for shure, but it does go to show that he bothered to search.

[izzo]

Resurrected an old thread for shure, but it does go to show that he bothered to search.

 

 

Very true! A good job to him :D

[I'm BLUE]

Still having issues ? :huh:

[oneta22]

hmmm having same problem no more air but still feels mushie.....what now??? brake fluid clean no bubles but gets hard then goes......down help!!!

[I'm BLUE]

I spy Anon User ? :unsure:

[TENDRIL]

so i re bled my system after taking my axle off the goon , and I now have a firmer pedal than ever, but almost no braking power when i try to use the breaks normal,  when i push really really  hard tho it slowly starts to work... 

 

btw master cyl is new, front pads are good and ive never taken of my rear drums since owning the goon? im going to go out side and do it now tho.. any ideas? 

 

and i have never had to adjust them before.

 

 

p.s. from the grave thread

[datzenmike]

Was the master and front pads replaced before the rear axle was removed and was it working properly???

 

Why was the rear end taken out, what for?

 

Can I assume that when the axle was put back in the brakes were mushy and this is why you re-bled it???

 

 

Do you have vacuum power boosted brakes? If so....

 

Pump brakes several times with motor off.

Step on brake pedal firmly and hold.

Start motor.

Does pedal drop slightly towards the floor?

[TENDRIL]

Was the master and front pads replaced before the rear axle was removed and was it working properly???

yes

 

  

 

Why was the rear end taken out, what for?

was trying to correct the axle being off center  :blush:

 

 

 

 

 

Can I assume that when the axle was put back in the brakes were mushy and this is why you re-bled it???

yes

 

 

Do you have vacuum power boosted brakes? If so....

yes

Pump brakes several times with motor off.

Step on brake pedal firmly and hold.

Start motor.

Does pedal drop slightly towards the floor?

hmm didnt try

 

theres about 6.5 mm of meat left on all four shoes left/right 

 

and there is a small (pretty small) lip on the drum both sides ..normal? or need replace 

 

 

also just noticed that one of the adjusters pass. side was in half way turn (points were touching the little thingys, not the flat side)  when i was loosening them... the culprit? 

[TENDRIL]

also when i go to put them back together how far will i re-adjust them?

 

 

turn all the way till hard than back off 1/4 turn at a time till the wheel spins?

 

also i dont have any brake cleaner..will starter fluid work ? lol

[TENDRIL]

when i go to re-bleed them do i adjust the drums before i bleed?

[TENDRIL]

TTT

[TENDRIL]

ok so i pump the brakes a couple times turn the car on and the pedal dose not drop that i notice, but it dose feel different with car on and car off ? car off hard, car on soft?

 

bled everything thru and still not very responsive but they are there just have to press had not as had as before but still hard,

 

drums are adjusted so that the wheels spin about 1 rotation and stop, maybe i still have air?

 

the pedel feels like it should but no stopping really

[wayno]

OK, let us go about it this way, the front brakes are disc, correct, which brakes did you bleed first, or did you only bleed the back brakes?

If you have a dual master brake cylinder, and you bleed the front brakes first, or maybe the front brakes did not need bled, then the front circuit interferes with bleeding the rear circuit, so what you have to do is get a piece of small clear tubing that will fit over the front bleeder valve on either side, put some brake fluid in a cup, then put that tubing from the front bleeder valve in the cup, now open the front bleeder, now you can now bleed the rear circuit without the front circuit interfering, then close the front circuit when you are done.

You likely have air in the rear circuit that you cannot get out because the front brakes are working to good, otherwise it sounds like your power brake booster went bad.

[datzenmike]

The booster uses a small amount of foot power to apply engine vacuum to a diaphragm to multiply that power several times. With the engine off only your foot pressure is applying the brakes. When you start the motor the vacuum is applied and the extra assistance will cause the pedal to drop slightly. If there is no movement then I would say the booster is not working properly.

 

Yes always adjust the shoes closer to the drum before bleeding. I loosen the E brake cable slightly first. I spin the wheel by hand and turn the adjuster in till it drags. Then pump the brakes several times to center the adjuster and repeat.

[TENDRIL]

 so what you have to do is get a piece of small clear tubing that will fit over the front bleeder valve on either side, put some brake fluid in a cup, then put that tubing from the front bleeder valve in the cup, now open the front bleeder, now you can now bleed the rear circuit without the front circuit interfering, then close the front circuit when you are done.

 ok im going to try this