tension control rods

[john510]

I replaced the bushings on the tc rods and now the car pulls a little to one side .Do the rods have anything to do with alignment ?

[datzenmike]

They support the LCA in it's position. The car may have been aligned with worn bushings. Changing the old worn bushings for new ones will move the position of the LCA and the old alignment is lost. Just have it re-aligned but be sure any steering or other suspension components are in good shape or replaced first.

[sssr20det510]

it will mess with caster, you need a half a degree split to pull against the crown of the road. If you have more or less it will cause the car to pull.

[72240z]

Make sure if you replace the bushings you use regular oem rubber ones and not poly or the like.

[greybeard]

Make sure if you replace the bushings you use regular oem rubber ones and not poly or the like.

 

 

Why do you say that?, I've found that the polly bushing kit with the aluminum socket really improved steering and braking feel.

 

it will increase road noise somewhat, but I found that a worthwile tradeoff.

 

and yes, car will need alignment checked after changing these bushings, as was said above

 

it will change the castor settings.

[datzenmike]

Rubber grips both surfaces and 'gives' in the middle. Polly doesn't 'give' so one of the surfaces chafes. It will squeak and or wear out. Rubber is better for lasting but not as firm.

[72240z]

For the reasons Mike listed but most important to me is some people have snapped their tc rods using poly on both sides. It NEEDS the give or it can fail.

[Duke]

Why do you say that?, I've found that the polly bushing kit with the aluminum socket really improved steering and braking feel.

 

it will increase road noise somewhat, but I found that a worthwile tradeoff.

 

and yes, car will need alignment checked after changing these bushings, as was said above

 

it will change the castor settings.

 

 

The kit that you are describing is OK to use. The one that people are warning against is the kit made by energy suspension which simply replaces both bushings with poly bushings. It restricts movement quite a bit. The kit you have (made by EE I believe) allows the T/C rod to freely move, and therefore is not a problem.

[john510]

thanks for the replies,i did use the energy suspension brand and they do feel hard as a rock,what alternatives are there?

[qwik510]

thanks for the replies,i did use the energy suspension brand and they do feel hard as a rock,what alternatives are there?

 

Either get a set of the TC bushings from Experimental Engineering or drill holes in the Poly bushings to make them more compliant.

 

Carter Boad is the guy to talk to for the EE stuff.

 

CarterB@ELECTROIMPACT.COM

 

EE kit.

 

 

The Dime Quarterly had an article showing the proper way to modify poly bushings.

 

http://www.dimequarterly.tierranet.com/articles/tech_tcrod.html

 

 

 

Tension / Compression Rod Modification

A simple modification may help prevent T/C rod failures

Article and Illustrations by Kelvin Dietz

 

One of the most noticeable changes you can make to your car's handling is to replace the old rubber suspension bushings. By now they are well past their useful life and should probably be replaced. This was all covered in a previous DQ article, and one of the recommendations was to replace the stock Tension/Compression (T/C) rod bushings with Energy Suspension polyurethane bushings.

 

For a street driven or an autocross/street car, I think this is the best option. Parts are easy to come by, simple to install and maintenance free. However, I found an unpleasant side effect from these bushings that I thought I would share.

 

On a recent trip across town, I experienced the failure of my passenger-side T/C rod. I hit a small bump, heard a pop and noticed a slight pull to the right, but didn't think much of it as the car still went FAIRLY straight. I drove the car home and took the wheel off to find the problem. I nearly had a heart attack when I noticed the T/C rod had snapped in half at the shoulder behind the bushing. Not a problem at 30 M.P.H. on a city street, but potentially VERY damaging on a tight lefthander at 60 mph.

 

I'm surprised we haven't heard of more failures like this. Even though I've attempted to restore the stock front control arm angle by using bumpsteer spacers, my T/C rods are still angled up in comparison to stock. Between that and the stiffer bushings, the T/C rods experience much more stress than they do at stock ride height.

 

In light of this experience, I suggest modifying the polyurethane T/C bushings. I drilled six 5/16" holes around the perimeter of the center mounting hole. These should allow the T/C rod to pivot more easily and still offer the advantage of the stiffer bushing when braking and/or cornering. I recently replaced both of my T/C rods with a set from a car that had never been lowered. I also had that set Magnifluxed to be sure they were still in good shape. I shudder to think of the consequences of a high-speed failure.

 

DQ

[Bleach]

http://www.technotoytuning.com/productdetail.php?p=669

 

I used these bushings :)

 

[benzo]

Either get a set of the TC bushings from Experimental Engineering or drill holes in the Poly bushings to make them more compliant.

 

Carter Boad is the guy to talk to for the EE stuff.

 

CarterB@ELECTROIMPACT.COM

 

EE kit.

 

 

The Dime Quarterly had an article showing the proper way to modify poly bushings.

 

http://www.dimequarterly.tierranet.com/articles/tech_tcrod.html

 

 

 

Tension / Compression Rod Modification

A simple modification may help prevent T/C rod failures

Article and Illustrations by Kelvin Dietz

 

One of the most noticeable changes you can make to your car's handling is to replace the old rubber suspension bushings. By now they are well past their useful life and should probably be replaced. This was all covered in a previous DQ article, and one of the recommendations was to replace the stock Tension/Compression (T/C) rod bushings with Energy Suspension polyurethane bushings.

 

For a street driven or an autocross/street car, I think this is the best option. Parts are easy to come by, simple to install and maintenance free. However, I found an unpleasant side effect from these bushings that I thought I would share.

 

On a recent trip across town, I experienced the failure of my passenger-side T/C rod. I hit a small bump, heard a pop and noticed a slight pull to the right, but didn't think much of it as the car still went FAIRLY straight. I drove the car home and took the wheel off to find the problem. I nearly had a heart attack when I noticed the T/C rod had snapped in half at the shoulder behind the bushing. Not a problem at 30 M.P.H. on a city street, but potentially VERY damaging on a tight lefthander at 60 mph.

 

I'm surprised we haven't heard of more failures like this. Even though I've attempted to restore the stock front control arm angle by using bumpsteer spacers, my T/C rods are still angled up in comparison to stock. Between that and the stiffer bushings, the T/C rods experience much more stress than they do at stock ride height.

 

In light of this experience, I suggest modifying the polyurethane T/C bushings. I drilled six 5/16" holes around the perimeter of the center mounting hole. These should allow the T/C rod to pivot more easily and still offer the advantage of the stiffer bushing when braking and/or cornering. I recently replaced both of my T/C rods with a set from a car that had never been lowered. I also had that set Magnifluxed to be sure they were still in good shape. I shudder to think of the consequences of a high-speed failure.

 

DQ

 

I agree with Dave. I have Carters kit on my car with one side of a stock oem bushing and it works great. no noise and good control and stable. I also have his delrin idler bushing kit also. I also changed out all my other worn out suspension components and got a alignment and for a old car with old steering design it is totally stable and sensitive for driving. I have had urethane before and thank god I was able to sell them as it was noisy. made the car sound junky

[paradoxx]

Either get a set of the TC bushings from Experimental Engineering or drill holes in the Poly bushings to make them more compliant.

 

Carter Boad is the guy to talk to for the EE stuff.

 

CarterB@ELECTROIMPACT.COM

 

EE kit.

 

 

 

 

i also have this kit somewhere around, never installed it.

[john510]

Shit,the picture of the EE brand you guys are showing is what i replaced,if its not that brand its very similar,i replaced them because they were 20 years old and one of them was cracking.Again thanks for the information guys

[benzo]

Shit,the picture of the EE brand you guys are showing is what i replaced,if its not that brand its very similar,i replaced them because they were 20 years old and one of them was cracking.Again thanks for the information guys

 

if the delrin is still in good shape and cups on the EE kit are ok just get new rubber bushings from like motorsport auto for a Z and use those or do that mod on the urethane one to use on one side. if it were me and the old EE kit is still in good shape get stock oem bushing from motorsport auto.

[SHADY280]

i used the ball kit on my 280zx. its been in for 10 years now of hard driving and autox. i used poly on one side only and ball on the other. really makes a diff for those who cant afford bleaches option.

[Logical1]

http://www.technotoytuning.com/productdetail.php?p=669

 

I used these bushings :)

 

 

I want those bad, but I'm broke as shit! Just curious if any machinist has ever tried to make there own adjustable T/C rods? Seems like you could cut them them in half trim a little off each. Die the ends & get a rated 'turnbuckle' collar some nuts and presto. Not that I would want to mess around with anything cheapo or risk unrated hardware. Just curious....

[72240z]

Ya google it, diy ones are all over the place. They aren't as nice as the ttts though.

[Duke]

I want those bad, but I'm broke as shit! Just curious if any machinist has ever tried to make there own adjustable T/C rods? Seems like you could cut them them in half trim a little off each. Die the ends & get a rated 'turnbuckle' collar some nuts and presto. Not that I would want to mess around with anything cheapo or risk unrated hardware. Just curious....

 

Has been done many times. I have done it using inner tie rod ends from a rack and pinion car. Doing it this way leads to better suspension geometry than the TTT ones. It's also good deal less expensive. I would say that mine cost me $75 for the pair, including the cost of the tooling.

[72240z]

Wheres the write up mannnnnn? lol

 

Why/how better geometry?

[Duke]

Here is a picture of them, along with the adjustable LCA's that I made.

 

 

With regards to the geometry issue, it is because the TTT design moves the T/C rod pivot point and shortens the T/C rod length considerably. By shortening the T/C rod length the arc that the T/C rod makes through the suspension travel is affected. This leads to bump steer issues. The design that I used (which I copied from many other people) keeps the pivot point closer to stock, therefore not affecting geometry as much.

[Icehouse]

I've used the EE kit and the T3 I also want to build a set like Duke. The EE kit is a step above stock but if over tightened they will snap (happened to a good friend, he said it was the scariest thing that ever happened to him in a car.) The T3 ones made a HUGE difference, almost like a new car :)

 

I'm also against polly highly over rated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These 2 pages came from "Chassis engineering" By Herb Adams if I remember correctly. IMO a must have for any car guy interested in suspension and chassis design.

[zerow]

Not to thread-jack, just trying to fully understand.

 

Okay, so I'm going for the full front end rebuild. I have the ST poly bushings. My 610 will be primarily a street driven (long distances on occasion) car.

 

The drilling as described in the previous posts - does it work, or is that a band-aid for a problem down the road?

 

Rubber is better, I get that, but, are they still available? and I don't mean available on a shelf, and the rubber is harder than poly.

 

I will be getting underway soon, like next month, so I want to know that if drilling is the answer, and I won't run the risk of shattering, breaking or stressing if I do the drilling as prescribed. Or go and get the rubber bushings and alleviate one worry from future driving.

[hang_510]

Just curious if any machinist has ever tried to make there own adjustable T/C rods? Seems like you could cut them them in half trim a little off each. Die the ends & get a rated 'turnbuckle' collar some nuts and presto. Not that I would want to mess around with anything cheapo or risk unrated hardware. Just curious....

the PO did it on the sedan. looks identical to dukes.

 

serious race impact that slightly bent it, along with a serious bend to the bolt(stud?) for LCA. :o

he unbent it and its still in use.

[Icehouse]

I chatted with a guy that used to circle track race 510's (very sad to see some of the cars :) ) He said the version that Duke and others have done are awesome but don't handle the stress of a wreck as good as one would think. He said he never had one fail unless the wheel hit something pretty hard, hard enough where the last thing he was worried about was the TC rod. I want to make some!