620 graft to 520 frame

[Sudo]

So, after a boatload of reading, then hemming and hawing for about a month. I think I finally have some direction. Thanks to datsme and datzenmike. http://forum.ratsun.net/showthread.php?t=17621

 

I have a 78 620 parts truck in the backyard and a 67 520 in the garage. The 520 has a tired old J13 in it, I could probably just rebuild it (anything is possible if you have enough time and money) but where is the fun in that? I want the 520 to be a DD, so for increased driveability I wanted more power and more stop.

 

L20B and disk brakes were just the ticket.

 

Datzenmike suggested to oldskminitrk to just swap the front frame section off of the 620 onto the 520. To quote Mike “If you have a '78 why not graft the front frame from it on just behind the rear mounts for the torsion bars. This would give you the better ball joint steering, front disc, L motor mounts and tranny mount for the long 4 or 5 spd. in one go.” You don’t have to be smart to be me either… a light bulb went on. “Hey, I got all that!”

 

So, to olddatsuns.com I went.

 

On the 520 front frame rail to rail == 680mm or 26.77”

1st mounting point == 840mm or 33.07”

From 1st mounting to 2nd == 1050mm or 41.34”

On the 620 couldn’t find front frame rail to rail

1st mounting == 841.8mm or 33.14”

From 1st to 2nd == 1069.4mm or 42.10” (along the truck’s body line)

From 1st to 2nd == 1085mm or 42.71 (as the crow flies)

 

And that’s just if I graft the front end. What about a body swap? Moving the body from the 520 to the frame of the 620? This, it seems to me, would involve cutting and rewelding the cab and bed mounts. That actually seems too easy. I would imagine the 620 frame is a frog hair longer than the 520 frame.

On olddatsun.com the 620 has a drawing and measurements for the body, while the 520 shows actual drawing of the frame and measurements. So it’s not a simple “overlay” one drawing over another to see what the gaps are.

I can rip the cab and bed off of the 620 this weekend (damn cold out there though!) to get accurate measurements. Unless someone already has the pertinent measurements for both frames AND the body mount points… Once I have those I should be able to determine if this is a doable graft.

So, I’m open to comments, feedback, and suggestions. Ultimately, it’s my ride and I have to be happy with it, but safety is a consideration and I value the opinions on this forum. So, whaddya’ll think?

[datzenmike]

I have the frame/body mount locations for the '78 and up but if you are removing the body you can just measure them yourself.

[nick_m]

Mates done a 521 cab on a 620 frame.

I believe the front mounts (the ones right at the front of the chassis near the radiator support) bolted up but he definitely had to move the the two cab ones. He just cut the old ones off and made new ones out of box section

 

Would definitely be the way too go in my opinion. Wasn't very hard at all

Edited December 4, 2009 by nick_m

[budsaipan]

I think you should just put the 521 body onto the 620 frame. Less hassle. :D

Edited December 4, 2009 by budsaipan

[b210in]

apparently you are not worried about the whole swapping vins thing. so in the end what will it be and what vin are you going to use?

[Madness]

The vin plate goes with the body.

 

If its a 520 it has to look like a 520, if its a 620 it has to look like a 620.

[]2eDeYe]

Depending on the state (I live in WA) you can take both titles and the truck to inspection and they will issue a new title. It's like building a trailer, you just need receipts for materials and an inspection.

 

I think Nuff had to do this when he swap bodies on his yota. He was told by WSP he couldn't just drive around with 2 titles. Call DOL and ask :)

[Madness]

whenever we did dash swaps, cab swaps, frame swaps we just drilled out the vin plates and riveted them back onto the new dash, cab, ect.

 

I guess out here in CO they're not as picky.

[kezark31]

here in oregon the title goes with the frame.

[Sudo]

hope to get started pulling the bed this afternoon. thx for the replies.

 

The 520 has a clear title in my name with antique tags. ($17/year w00t!)

the 620 is a free parts truck that came with no doors, no interior, no radiator, and no title.

In KS they are not as picky either, I dont think. The 520 was from Oregon, so I had to get it inspected by the KHP prior to getting a tag and title. Their "inspection" consisted of checking the VIN, checking the VIN plate and charging me $10. No: "Lights work? Turn signals work? Horn work?" Nuthin. Let alone a frame number check.

 

I'm sure circumstances change, but I just do not foresee where I even sell this truck. The worse case scenario would be moving to another state to get it titled and tagged in that state-- but if you are sitting at the top of a hill and waiting for ALL the lights to turn green before you go, you'll never go. (I'm saying I'll cross that bridge when I come to it)

 

I think in the end it will be a 570:lol: 520+620=1140 /2 = 570 ...but for the purposes of the State it will be a 1967 520 with a clear and clear title and an antique tag that costs $17/year to renew.

 

...I gotta get some Carharts if I'm gonna work outside in the winter.... I hope to get some work done this afternoon IF I'm not too much of a puss.

 

thx again guys.

[yellowdatsun]

FWIW, the frames on all the trucks, 520 through 720, are all *very* similar. So either swapping bodies, or doing some cut and paste of frame parts should be relatively easy.

 

You wanna sell me that NL320 yet?

[greybeard]

seems to me that if the mounts need to be moved, the middle mount would still have to be moved if you weld splice the frame, ( the one under the front of the door. )

 

would it not be easier/safer to cut/weld body mounts than to spice the frame?

 

I'm interested to see the outcome, because I have a friend with a 521 we are considering doing a 2wd 620 or 720 frame swap on.

[Sudo]

FWIW, the frames on all the trucks, 520 through 720, are all *very* similar. So either swapping bodies, or doing some cut and paste of frame parts should be relatively easy.

 

You wanna sell me that NL320 yet?

 

HA HA! :lol: nope, not yet. Funny you should mention it: I came across a 90 Hardbody, went and looked at this this morning. had a KA24e in it that needed timing kit (and probably valves, ... and gaskets....) AND it had another KA24e in the bed. for $275 Delivered. but I couldnt pull the trigger on it cuz I have 3 trucks now that dont run. I thought I could just put the timing kit on the D21 and be done- drive that through the winter and get the 570 on the road then sell the D21. Use that money towards the NL320. But, I have not bought any acreage yet... so ... no place to put it. Besides that $275 is money I can use towards the existing projects. sigh.

 

seems to me that if the mounts need to be moved, the middle mount would still have to be moved if you weld splice the frame, ( the one under the front of the door. )

 

would it not be easier/safer to cut/weld body mounts than to spice the frame?

greybeard- I think it will be absolutely easier to cut/weld (or even cut/fabricate new) body mounts. I may have to chop off some of the backend of the frame on the 620 then relocate the mounts based on keeping the front ones in place. But, I would advise NOT waiting on me if you and your buddy are in a hurry: I do plan on being done by May 2010, but I do not feel contractually obligated to do so.:) But, I am going to try to stay motivated to work on this every weekend. (emphasis on the word "try")

 

UPDATE- I got the bed off today. Got some pix to prove it. (I'll upload them tomorrow- the batteries died on the camera) It is so rusted that I had to use a reciprocating saw to cut the bolts between the mounts and the bed. I could have just cut the mounts off, but I thought to myself- "What if they are in the right spot and I cut them off without measuring?" So it was more of a bitch to cut the bolts, but I think it was the better move in the long run.

The bed was so rusted that I was able to move it up a slight incline in my yard to store it until the scappers come by myself! :eek: (Rust is nature's weight reducer)

Plan is to try to remove the cab tomorrow and take all my measurements, and post pix. Natch.

 

-Steve

[Charlie69]

The single headlight 520 (early) is getting rare any cutting of the frame will devalue the truck in my opinion.

[Sudo]

Charlie- Your build thread was one of the reasons I decided to go with a L20b. Don't you have to modify the frame in some way to get the L20b to fit in a 520/521? I appreciate your POV here, I really do. But, if all goes as planned, I will not touch the 520 frame.

 

Announcer voice "no 520 frames were harmed in the making of this truck" ...;)

 

I'm thinking of doing a body swap. The whole body of the 520 onto a 620 frame. The 620 frame would be modified to allow the mounting of the 520 body to it.

 

I'll get the same things that you will end up with on your truck- minus the auto transmission and the disc brakes on the rear. This will get me a L20b, front disc brakes, and I get to keep the 520 dash. I just wont have to fab up some motor mounts, alter the radiator housing, relocate the transmission mount, futz with the oil pan or cross member, or otherwise molest the 520 frame to get the goods that I want on my ride. I might not even have to cut the firewall...but I doubt that last part.

 

I paid $600 for the 520. When I'm done I hope it is worth more, but regardless: I'm never going to sell it. (hopefully) Unless one of these rich Cal-eye-forn-eye-A dudes wants to offer a small fortune to this dumb ol' Kansas hick. :lol: O! Wait. We're on Ratsun not NICO... my bad. :lol:

 

So, in all seriousness, while it might be selfish of me, I do not worry about devaluing it as of right now. But, thank you for trusting me enough to voice your opinion. I do appreciate it.

 

-Steve

[slam_dat_sun]

Charlie you are so freaking smart :lol:

[Shonuff]

i was driving around with the title for the body in my pocket and the registration and the plates for the frame (all in my name).

 

was told that because the vin on the dash (if they bother to check they will check there) doesnt match the reg, the truck/plates would be considered stolen. which means automatic impound and cuffs....

 

so now i drive around with the plates/reg for the cab and keep the frame title at home. highly doubt they'd ever check the frame vin, and if they were going to id make em find it themselves.

 

 

 

if i was just swapping the frame bits like you id just cut the vin stamp out of the 520 rails and weld it on top of the 620 frame stamp, or cut the 620 out and replace with a plug from the 520

 

maybe sell the 620 title with the cab, but...

 

 

in WA the title belongs with the frame, the state considers the cab a replaceable part like a fender.

 

 

so me id sell the cab without the title but wait until the new owner shows up to pull the vins.

Edited December 6, 2009 by Shonuff

[greybeard]

greybeard- I think it will be absolutely easier to cut/weld (or even cut/fabricate new) body mounts. I may have to chop off some of the backend of the frame on the 620 then relocate the mounts based on keeping the front ones in place. But, I would advise NOT waiting on me if you and your buddy are in a hurry: I do plan on being done by May 2010, but I do not feel contractually obligated to do so.:) But, I am going to try to stay motivated to work on this every weekend. (emphasis on the word "try")

 

 

-Steve

 

HAHA, no worries, these Trucks are not our DD and where built before the easy info on the internet. My truck is the result of 21 years of what if I did this, or what if I changed that. My Buddy with the 521 has had it longer than I've had my 620.

 

mt first car was a 510, back in 1977, next was a 521. since than I have not been without a Datsun PU.

 

Both my buddys and my trucks have been on the back burner for quite a while, running and driving, but no changes. Life has a way of doing that.

 

You guys have me motivated to fit the KA24DE head I've had in the garage.. so i guess thats next.

 

Good luck with your project, I wish you the best results!:)

Edited December 6, 2009 by greybeard

[Charlie69]

Yes I had to remove the J13 front motor mounts and the horn mounts and I will remove the bracket that holds the slave cylinder hose to the frame. These are all easily welded back on.

 

The grafting of the frame is not easily restored.

 

Also the disk brakes on the 620 are not vented rotors. This is why I went with 1985 720 disk brake rotors and calipers. the have vented rotors.

 

I have a complete 1980 720 rolling chassis that I was going to use until I found out about the frame # problem, The fact that the front center of tire width is 3" wider than the stock 520, the rear is only 1" wider, cab & bed mounts were all going to have to be modified. But the biggest difference I found was the center of spindle to front mount (radiator core support) and from the center of spindle to the front cab mount.

 

The reason I went with a 1966 is in AZ 1966 and earlier do not have to be emissions tested. If I use the 80 frame or do a major alteration to the frame such as graft AZ then considers it a reconstructed wehicle and after rigorous inspections issues an AZ Reconstruct Title for the current year such as 2009 which means emissions and the vehicle has to meet all standards for a 2009 vehicle such as emiision controls.

 

In AZ it can get real ugly. I used to have to do this title work because of the custom Harleys I used to build. And the same applies to a car. You can always try to beat the laws and hope you never get pulled over and checked. I did and it cost me a $10,000 harley, as it was impounded and crushed.

 

My best advice is check your state laws before altering your frame. Hell your State might not even care.

 

Shonuff if i was just swapping the frame bits like you id just cut the vin stamp out of the 520 rails and weld it on top of the 620 frame stamp, or cut the 620 out and replace with a plug from the 520

 

This is illegal does "Chop Shop" ring any bells!

[greybeard]

The reason I went with a 1966 is in AZ 1966 and earlier do not have to be emissions tested. If I use the 80 frame or do a major alteration to the frame such as graft AZ then considers it a reconstructed wehicle and after rigorous inspections issues an AZ Reconstruct Title for the current year such as 2009 which means emissions and the vehicle has to meet all standards for a 2009 vehicle such as emiision controls.

 

In AZ it can get real ugly. I used to have to do this title work because of the custom Harleys I used to build. And the same applies to a car. You can always try to beat the laws and hope you never get pulled over and checked. I did and it cost me a $10,000 harley, as it was impounded and crushed.

 

My best advice is check your state laws before altering your frame. Hell your State might not even care.

 

 

So... if you build a 32 Ford Hot Rod on a new frame in AZ it has to pass 2009 emission standards? Oooffff,

[Sudo]

 

The reason I went with a 1966 is in AZ 1966 and earlier do not have to be emissions tested. If I use the 80 frame or do a major alteration to the frame such as graft AZ then considers it a reconstructed wehicle and after rigorous inspections issues an AZ Reconstruct Title for the current year such as 2009 which means emissions and the vehicle has to meet all standards for a 2009 vehicle such as emiision controls.

 

In AZ it can get real ugly. I used to have to do this title work because of the custom Harleys I used to build. And the same applies to a car. You can always try to beat the laws and hope you never get pulled over and checked. I did and it cost me a $10,000 harley, as it was impounded and crushed.

 

My best advice is check your state laws before altering your frame. Hell your State might not even care.

 

 

Oh Man!. point taken. Good advice. That SUX about the Harley. (Tell you something you don't know, right?) I will definately be calling the state tomorrow. Thanks a bunch Charlie.

 

S0- an UPDATE. I got the cab off. No pix as I did not go get batteries for the camera. No measurements yet, as I was busy tending a smoked pork shoulder and by night fall it was time to pull it apart and get it in BBQ sauce. I'll get some measurements tomorrow after work.

 

Sheesh, after thinking about what Charlie said, I might be doing all this work for nuthin, but I should know by tomorrow night if the dimensions will work. Then depending on what the State of Kansas says....

 

(Note to self: look into the fender flares....)

 

-Steve

[Sudo]

So I called the KHP, I had to state my situation about 4 times, but finally got a Lieutenant that gave me the lay of the land.

 

I could face the possibility of a new build which would qualify my Datsun as a 2010 vehicle. But, he gave me some tips to keep that from happening.

 

1) keep the body intact - no body mods that would alter the lines of the OEM make/model.

2) have a WPD beat cop swing by my place when he gets a free cycle to run the frame VIN# against the "hot list"

3) get a Bill of Sale from the cat that gave me the frame. ( in case worse came to worse and I needed to show who I got the frame from.)

 

Direct quote from the Lt. Williams "42 year old truck, 31 year old frame: we view that about like changing the door."

 

He said more than likely I would not have any trouble in the state of KS, BUT, if I ever went to another state I could run into potential problems. He said if I were to move or sell to an out of state buyer, then to come down to the inspection office and for $10 they'll do an inspection that will enable me to get a new VIN#. (this is supposing that the frame VIN# is NOT on the hot list) He lead me to believe that the new VIN# would be a result of the body VIN# and the frame VIN#. <- this might be a good option to consider anyway.

 

He gave me his name and number and said to call back anytime I needed help. I thought about asking him if he wanted to run brake and fuel lines...:lol:

 

So, that hurdle seems to be cleared in my mind, at least I know what my options are. Now to get the measurements and pics tonight.

 

thx.

-Steve

[Charlie69]

That is good info, and a pretty descent Officer to give you his number. It is always good to know your options.

[oldsklminitrk]

I got the dics brakes on a 620 and they bolted right up to the 520 frame...control arms and all...just a idea

[Sudo]

City of Wichita paid me a little visit today.:mad:

 

So much for "owning" my property. It seems that I cant certain types of property on my own private property.

 

1) illegal storage of inoperable vehicles in a residential zone

2) Illegal auto repair in a residential location.

 

I have until Dec 21st to remove said violations. So, gotta deal with that first.

 

I should have known it was coming: my neighbor that shares my backyard fenceline has called the City on me 4 times. We've only been here 4 years! :eek: I guess we are the trashy neighbors. But over the xmas break I'm going to put in a 8ft privacy fence on that property line.

 

No measurements yet. Geez the hard part is done, measurements would be the easy part.

The reason I did not get the measurements is that I picked up a set of these.

 

 

$80. off of craigslist. The look that I am going for is similar to NSRz32's 521.

 

I'll upload some pix later tonight. This thread SUX without pix. ...wish I could change the title of the thread....

 

-Steve

Edited December 8, 2009 by Sudo