Just Joel Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I started the project with asking a few basic questions... These few question have now turned into quite a few questions so I figure I'd start a new thread under a more general title :P Currently I'm in the early stages but I can use all the pointers and help I can get so please bare with while I post progress pics through to completion. Thanks Joel Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 TAKEN FROM MY OTHER THREAD... Started the evening watching banzai510(hainz)'s vid on L16 break down and built up enough confidence to start work on mine. Everything was going well and I was actually excited to find how clean the top end appeared to be until I found this while adjusting the valves... It seemed odd at first not to mention the valve was loose as hell. I started digging around to see what was different and found this... Compared to a complete assembly... I'm bummed to say the least... Not only does it seem this motor has been worked on quite a bit, it appears it was all preformed by a moron! Now, I have a few questions... Did this already damage the motor potentially? Where can I find/buy the missing parts? What else could potentially be damaged/warn as a result? While I was taking pictures, I did my best to take some of the valve through the manifold ports... The valve with the issue looks wet to me... how do they look to the rest of you? Exhaust front to back... Intake front to back... The bad rocker Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I found it! While removing the head, I found it sitting in a small pocket at the back so I'll put it back in when I replace the valve seals... I'll update tonight with pictures of the block and head and see what everyone thinks. Later Joel Quote Link to comment
Jesse C. Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 If the lash pad popped out, you have something going on with the spring, spring retainer and rocker arm. I would not put that part back but instead find a new one or at least a clean used one. The head seems like it is ready to be gone through and have a valve job done along with some parts replacements. Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 The lash pad looks fairly good... I don't know why it popped out but I can only assume that maybe the valve was out of adjustment. Don't know... None the less, I'm going to pull and lap all the valves and replace the seals, so while I'm at it, I'll keep an eye out for other problems. Thanks Joel Quote Link to comment
pl521sss Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Source out a closed chamber head and have it serviced If you don't already have one on there It's a nice upgrade Quote Link to comment
MicroMachinery Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 (edited) If it HAS been fooled around w/ by someone that doesn't know/care about what they're doing, it's not impossible they may have just neglected to put it in the right place; and by "put it in the right place", I mean that they could have just dropped it, looked for 3 seconds, couldn't find it, and said "f*ck it". That doesn't mean I wouldn't look around a bit for faulty parts and make sure everything's ok and how it should be, but don't rule out the possibility that some chimp was working on this thing before.. when I got my first 510, I got it super cheap because the engine was seized(cam seized in the towers). I took the head off, and lo-and-behold, the little wooden wedge that's used to hold the timing chain in place was still there.. you gotta be kidding me! Edited October 11, 2009 by MicroMachinery Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 If it HAS been fooled around w/ by someone that doesn't know/care about what they're doing, it's not impossible they may have just neglected to put it in the right place; and by "put it in the right place", I mean that they could have just dropped it, looked for 3 seconds, couldn't find it, and said "f*ck it". That doesn't mean I wouldn't look around a bit for faulty parts and make sure everything's ok and how it should be, but don't rule out the possibility that some chimp was working on this thing before.. when I got my first 510, I got it super cheap because the engine was seized(cam seized in the towers). I took the head off, and lo-and-behold, the little wooden wedge that's used to hold the timing chain in place was still there.. you gotta be kidding me! LOL good stuff... Yeah, I can see what you mean. I have been extra careful so far to keep an eye out for faulty work/parts and will continue to do so. This thing runs pretty decent for an old car aside from a lack of preventative maintenance :rolleyes: Thanks Joel Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Source out a closed chamber head and have it servicedIf you don't already have one on there It's a nice upgrade Not on this one... this is merely for my piece of mind while I drive this thing for the next couple years. During this time, I plan to build an L series motor for the swap which will be filled with the goodies ;) Thanks Joel Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 (edited) Alright, heres some updates of what I found today... After setting everything to TDC and having it line up so well, I was surprised to see that the timing chain was so stretched... The tensioner is almost fully extended and the pad had worn through at the bottom... Looks like a timing kit is in order. Where can I find a Jap set for a good price? Does the kit replace the guides and the tensioner? I pulled the head and found this... Looks pretty good to my layman eyes... Everything turns smooth and over all appears, to be in good shape. Depending on what everyone thinks, I’ll shoot a fresh coat of paint on her and call it good for now… And the underside of the head... Once again, about what I expected to find... So I think I'll have the head cleaned, machined and lapped before I reassemble everything. Take a look and feel free to tell me what you think. How does everything look? Thanks Joel Edited October 11, 2009 by Just Joel Quote Link to comment
MicroMachinery Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Looks like you're burning oil. If the valve stem seals are brittle, the intake valve will suck oil down past the valve stem. If the valve guides are worn, they'll need to be replaced. Also, I just saw on craigslist there's a new OEM timing chain for sale in Vancouver for $75. I'd check rockauto.com to see if you could get it from them for less, but OEM stuff is usually the way to go. Quote Link to comment
moparvwfreak Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 i got mine from carquest for about $90. its an OSK brand made in Japan. seems like its a qualit unit with the bright linked chain, both guides, tentioner gaskets AND both gears. Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Notice the angle on the tensioner? Its been running for a while almost fully extended and as a result, worn out the top of the shaft. Can I just replace the shaft and pad or will I have to replace the entire unit? Where can those be found? I talked to Carquest and they want $140 for their kit and he wasn't sure what all was included. Sounds a little high? Thanks Joel Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 do not get the Cloyes or melling brand try to get Beck Arnley brand or a known Jap units/set. At least make sure the sprockets are the Jap ones. Nice to have Jap chains as they have the brite link on intial set up to put on the timming dimples. Quote Link to comment
nismo dr Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Is the oil control ring on top?!? Quote Link to comment
Jesse C. Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Yikes! Time for a total overhaul! Either the oil control ring was shoved into the wrong groove or the compression ring has totally collapsed! In this case I would start hunting around for an L-18 or L-20B, unless you have a serious hard on for the L-16, and rebuild one of those instead. Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hmmm... didn't notice that before :( I'll have to take a closer look when I get back to the shop. That sucks! How in the hell did that happen? The compression was so consistent and the cylinder walls are so clean... What essentially am I looking at there to fix the problem? A re hone and a new set of rings? Man! There Quote Link to comment
Jesse C. Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Well, if you are going to do the rings, then you have to pull the rods and pistons out, then you have to see how bad the bearings are. Most likely they will just have regular wear and tear and the crank might only need a re-polish. Or, the crank might be worn and you will need to have it reground and new oversize mains and possibly rod bearings. Like I said, this is the time for a whole overhaul or a new engine. This is quickly heading out of the cheap zone. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 rings are cheap. just buy standard size and install them. see what happens Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Alright, I took a closer look at it this afternoon and it Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Bump... Any thoughts on the recent developments? Quote Link to comment
MicroMachinery Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Since you have the head off, I'd pull the pan off too. You'll only be out about $5. Now's the time to see if those rings are actually in the right places or not. I do see the impression mid-cylinder, but what about down near the piston.. if it sat a long time in one spot, I'd think that there'd be an impression on one spot, not two... is that a reflection? At any rate, as you have the engine down this far, you may as well look at the connecting rod bearings and mains as well. Like I said, you'll be out $5 for the pan gasket, BUT you'll have the peace of mind knowing what's on the bottom end. Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 The pan is already off :P Should have said that... sorry. The bearings look good and everything seems in place. There are two impressions in the cylinder, one higher than the other. Not sure what could have caused this but the cylinders are clean and everything moves nice a smooth... What do you think? Thanks Joel Quote Link to comment
MicroMachinery Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Did you have it running before you pulled it? Did you take a compression reading? If the rings are fine, then the cross-hatching on the cylinder walls looks good too. But like I said before, I'd check the valve stem seals and the play in the valve guides to see if they're sucking oil. It will be on the intake valves where you have the issue. As long as the rings are in the right place(and not upside-down or anything), you should be gold. I bought an L18 once that had 10k miles on it, and only after putting it in the car, I found out that the rings were installed wrong. Burns TONS of oil.. Bummer. Quote Link to comment
Just Joel Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yeah, I drove the rig back from Washington after I bought it (about 300 miles) and couldn't detect any smoking. If I continue with this motor, I will have the head cleaned, machined and have the valves lapped. I was already planning on replacing the seals so the head should be solid after all that. I took a compression reading before breaking everything down and came up with 135 a crossed the board. Its a little low I know but the valves were all out of adjustment and they have a bit of build up so hopefully between adjusting everything properly and a good cleaning, I can get that number up a bit. But this is all of coarse dependent on whether the block is in decent enough shape to continue. I don Quote Link to comment
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