Jump to content
blownb310

GA16DE RWD trans?

Recommended Posts

I've seen pictures before of people cutting the ends of the plenum off, swapping ends and using plate aluminum to weld it back together. It looks like the idle air motor would end up swapping places with the throttle body

Share this post


Link to post

I was thinking you could cut the ends off and JB-Weld them reversed.

Share this post


Link to post

didn't know there was a sidedraught intake for the ga!

 

that would look much cooler & cleaner than the clunky stock intake (even if you reversed the tb's)

but i'm guessing mike's gonna want to keep the oem efi intact

Share this post


Link to post

No need to keep the EFI -- you can trigger the variable valve timing with a simple RPM switch.

Share this post


Link to post

Here's the carburetor manifold for GA16:

 

23074.jpg

Rowland brand

 

 

No need to keep the EFI -- you can trigger the variable valve timing with a simple RPM switch.

 

 

Winning.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Guest kamakazi620

No need to keep the EFI -- you can trigger the variable valve timing with a simple RPM switch.

True but the ecu controls more thank the valve timing such as more fuel and advancing the timing. Look in to it some dumb hondar kids think just a switch will controls vtec but it also the ecu tells the injectors more fuel and the dizzy more advance + on a hondar their is an extra oil passage for the cams you donte wanna flip the switch and have it burn too lean.

Share this post


Link to post

This is something I've wanted to do for a long time... so this is good news to me. If you want fuel injection, you'll have to modify the stock manifold, find someone familiar with welding cast. For the ignition, if you want to retain factory injection, you're probably going to have to cut the firewall.

 

If I decide to go GA, I'm going carbs with megajolt, maybe even a single carb for fuel economy. I'd probably have the transmission ear widened instead of rethreading the block, but I'm excited to see just how simple you make it and the outcome. As far as the variable cam, I'd leave it on or off and tune for that.

Share this post


Link to post

You forgot to mention what you did for the clutch? Any idea if the input shaft and throwout bearing/carrier are the same in the LHD hydraulic boxes as the RHD cable boxes?

Share this post


Link to post

I have seen quite a few GA16DET builds and it's a common thing to port match and use the SR20's intake manifold though i've never seen it done the intake manifold for the RWD SR20 should be a good option if you port match it and provided it fits like the FWD SR20 one would, as far as the distributor goes id just get rid of it and go with a crank trigger like someone els was saying, that way you wouldnt have to cut the firewall at all, additionally =3 a turbo setup on that engine would give the engine some great improvements but one hurdle at a time yes.

Share this post


Link to post

awesome deadthread guessing the op gave up on this years ago

-

having said that, on a whim we ordered a serena bellhousing from nissan and promplty forgot about it

-

it arrived 18 months later   :w00t:

-

it will make a nice conversation piece

 

147043.jpg

Share this post


Link to post

Did this ever get any further? :)

 

 

awesome deadthread guessing the op gave up on this years ago

-

having said that, on a whim we ordered a serena bellhousing from nissan and promplty forgot about it

-

it arrived 18 months later   :w00t:

-

it will make a nice conversation piece

 

147043.jpg

I'm here to bring this bitch back to life!!!!

 

Instead of the GA16DE I am going to use a QG18DE for my currently engineless 89 240sx (tasteless? who cares).   The 240 will be getting a different engine later, but I want this thing running again. 

 

I have a QG that I got from the local pick-y-pull yard.  The mouthbreather at the counter rang it up as a bare block (LOL) so I got it for $68 instead of $200+!  

I already have an intake from an E16 (?) which almost fits (flange and ports are like 1/8" off.  So I could use that to do a carb or TBI setup If I wanted (make an adapter flange). 

Another fun fact is the pilot bushing size is very close to fitting the KA transmission (the inside diameter).  Neat, eh?

The engine is small enough that the KA bellhousing will allow for the QG starter to be used.  Another plus is the QG's starter is oriented like a normal RWD engine's would be -- coming from the front. 

 

I'll snap some pics and attach later. 

 

Edit: I'll put pics up tomorrow.  This post might sound trollish but I figure the qg/ga is worth the effort since there are tons of them in the junkyard (esp. pick-y-pull type places).

I figure some people might want this as a swap option for older Nissan/datsun RWD platforms, so it's worth the effort.  Turboed, I figure it might not be the fastest, but still fun.  There are FWD turbo builds on the QG that get ~220whp on stock internals without problems.   IIRC the CA18DE exhaust flange is close to the GA or QG flange also (lots of of choices for turbo manifold on the CA).  

Edited by kyuji

Share this post


Link to post

Interesting...

Share this post


Link to post

head
100_2055.jpg

block
100_2056.jpg

mains
100_2057.jpg

block front
100_2058.jpg

nice crank:
100_2060.jpg

nice cams.  Connecting rods and pistons with lots of carbon buildup. When I removed the oil pan it seemed the rods
were loose enough to be knocking.  The connecing rod bearings weren't too bad though.
100_2063.jpg

I was thinking about using this since it came to me basically for free.  Behold!  A fairly sludgy VK56DE from a 2006(?) Titan.  I'm not going to use it right now because

I hate work, pain, and having another summer with a non-running 240sx:
100_2066.jpg

Alright, here we have an intake from an E16i (I believe I got it from an '88 Nissan Sentra "sport coupe" from the pick-y-pull (my spanglish nick-name for a local yard)
.  I had some store credit to use at the time and thought it would come in handy in the future.  Next to it is an intercooler from a 89 Mazda 626 turbo (F2T).  
Then an oil cooler from god knows what.  It was on the ground at pick-y-pull.

100_2068.jpg

This is a QG18DE intake gasket on top of the flange of the e16i intake.  Here I have it positioned so the bolt holes mostly line up.  
The intake runners do not.  
100_2072.jpg

However, the intake runners have almost the same cross section.  Here I repositioned the gasket so we can see that:
100_2073.jpg
 

 

 I have two Hitachi DCH340s that I could possibly adapt to that intake for a  blowthrough application. 

That's the gist for now.  More to come.

Share this post


Link to post

Just another pic to let yall know this project's still alive:

3eJBx1C96q8F.jpg

 

Making a pattern for the tranny adapter plate. (acrylic looks effed up because I left the protective film on)

 

I scored an SC14 supercharger from a Previa and a Cannon intake for a Weber downdraft.  Going to do suckthrough.  That will be easier to adapt than the eaton. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Just a little update.   I've machined the most of the adapter plate except for the center hole to clear the flywheel and the holes to mount to the block.  The mill is an Index Model 55 I restored.  It uses a 3/4HP DC motor (NEMA 56C) with a KBMM-125 controller.  Yeah that's tin foil protecting the ways, heh.

 

Anyway the plan is to machine a doodad that will fit in the center of the front main transmission bearing that fits in the 240sx transmission bell housing.  Doodad will contain

a piece of drill rod that will extend to the plate that will be bolted on to the bellhousing (alignment dowels ensure perfect fit).  Center of drill rod will mark the centerline of where the mainshaft will be relative to that plate and will be the center of the clearance hole for the flywheel/main shaft/crank.  I will first bore that hole out to some smaller size and use

the back of the crank to fit that plate onto the engine block assembly to hold it while I mark where I need the block-to-plate holes (probably using transfer punches).

 

45vhrk4dDobc.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Is that supercharger the one with electromagnetic clutch on it? So it can be run mad max style with a switch?

Share this post


Link to post

If the supercharger is shut off or stopped, how does the engine draw the air into the cylinders???????

Share this post


Link to post
On 6/29/2018 at 8:54 PM, Lockleaf said:

Is that supercharger the one with electromagnetic clutch on it? So it can be run mad max style with a switch?

Yeah it has an electromagnetic clutch.  I didn't plan on using it for simplicity's sake though.  I want to KISS and do draw through (compression is pretty low at 7.6:1).   I guess one could rig up some type of plenum bypass but that'd be weird and leaky, and hurt flow probably.  If you did blow through though, you could just do a bypass something like the way they do it on the stock Previa that it came from.   The way the eatons do it is the supercharger always turns but there's a air intake bypass so the rotors just spin and don't draw vacuum.  It seems like for the same amount of effort for making that work on draw through, you could just as easily have a variable ratio pulley drive like some of the old Magnusons used to.  Then you could have some options to tune airflow/boost to load/RPM.  Fun fun fun. 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Ok time for another tease pic.  Sorry progress is so slow on this.   So an explanation of what's going on with this plate:

All of the holes you see are for mounting to the transmission.  The only way I can see to position the plate to mate the engine and tranny properly causes

several of them to be blind holes.  Not THAT big of a deal, because I can use countersunk bolts so that they are flush on the engine side and then come through for tranny mounting (many commercial plates i've seen do them all like that).   When I started I simply clamped the aluminum plate to the bellhousing and used dowel pin punches and put them through the holes on the tranny, thus marking dead center on the plate where you see the purple Dykem.  

 

In addition to the bolt holes for the tranny side, there are two dowel pins used as a fiducials.  I actually did these first because they locate the part in the assembly (in their stock role they likewise locate the bellhousing precisely to the engine block).   Getting these as accurate as possible when marking is critical.  I sacrificed two dowel pin

punches by cutting and grinding them so that they stuck up above the mounting surface of the bellhousing by the same height.  I then stood the bellhousing and set the plate, but not on the dowel pin ends.  I had some gage blocks evenly around the circumfrence in between the plate and the bellhousing end so that they were just above the points of the dowels then clamped everything down.  Then I tapped the other side above those dowel pin punches with a small mallet.

 

After the dowel and bolt holes were all drilled/reamed on the mill (one of them needs a countersink btw), I had the task of figuring out how to mark what is dead center of the tranny main shaft where it passes through.  The thing needs to be dead on and it took me a while to realize how to do it.  It needs to be dead on as possible.  I fixed the bellhousing to mill.  Then used a co-ax indicator to find the center of the main bearing hole in teh tranny.  Boom, that's dead center of the main shaft.  Then cranked the table back down, inserted a centering drill into the collet and mounted the plate to the tranny with my dowel pins.  WOW what a fit!  There was NO play.  I can usually (depends on teh assembly) feel play down to about .001  total error (i.e. +/- .005).   After bolting the plate down, I drilled that center locating hole and reamed to 5/8" (same diameter as the pilot bearing). 

 

So now I'm figuring out how the engine mounting holes (two dowel pins like the tranny) are going to be located relative to the tranny holes.  I again made a special dowel punch pin

because it needed to be taller than the other one I had.  It's mounted in the engine in that pic, you just can't see it.  There are three 123 blocks sitting on the gasketing surface of the engine, along with those dowel pins.  That's just an odd way of setting the plate to equal height all the way around (while it also makes it easy to adjust).  I don't have a bunch of gage blocks so this method works.  The doodad you see in the center is a 5/8" gage plug mating the plates centering hole to the pilot bearing.  The plate will be secured and given a little rap so the dowel pin punch  underneath marks the plate.

 

The next step is getting the relative radial position of the motor and tranny right.  IIRC the KA24Es are offset 12 degrees.  The QG seems to need to tilt to the drivers side (judging by how the head drains and how it's mounted in factory FWD vehicle).  Which is OK, but the top dowel pin hole in the tranny needs to be close to one of the engine-to-plate bolts.   AND it's hard to

estimate how the starter will line up, which is why I didn't cut it to the outline of the transmission.  That only helps a LITTLE because the starter bulge on the bellhousing side has to be

in a narrow range to clear.  It doesn't have to be DEAD on because the bellhousing is large.  the starter will mount via holes I've yet to drill in the plate. 

 

The damned frustrating thing is, the bolt hole pattern for the QG starter looks like it is about 180 out of phase with the bolt hole pattern of the KA starter!   So tantalizing when you see stuff like that!  After all the holes are drilled for mounting to the block, I'll mark the plate out to machine out a bunch of material so the flywheel clears everything.  Then the flywheel will

get mounted and I can mark out starter mounting based on measurements.   Then it's on to engine mounts and fitting!

 

All in all, a fun puzzle to work out!  We will find out soon enough whether the QG18DE[R] engine is a good alternative to the CA18DET (at least). 

Here's the overall plan:

SC14 supercharger (oh yeah I found new bearings for that one hehe ooooh) freshly rebuilt.

CR ~7.6:1

Forged rods

ARP conrod bolts

ARP head studs (KA24 fit, can't remember if it's the E or DE or if there's a difference)

e16i intake manifold.  (have to adapt slightly).

KA24 header with QG flange mounted

VVT removed and intake cam set to maximum flow.  It might idle kind of crappy, but it won't matter because of all that boost just off idle 🙂

 

Canon intake (for the old z) mated to the intake side of the SC14.  Haven't decided whether to mount a weber or something on it, or TBI.  I've got the Bosch wideband sensor

that people use for DIY A/f ratio gauges. 

 

Ignition will be based on E16 distributor from nissan pulsar that will mount where the VVS used to be.  I'm still planning out the details of the ignition.  I'd rather use all Nissan parts just for the cool factor (and some custom electronics).

 

Oh yeah, I picked up some Brembo front brakes and wheels from a 2003 Sentra S-ER.   ALso an LSD from an Infiniti J30.   Should be a fun little machine when done!

 

 

kyujiplate.jpg~original

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.