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GA16DE RWD trans?

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I know that Nissan never made a rear wheel drive car with the GA family of engines it them [GA14, GA15, or GA16], but has anyone ever adapted another RWD gearbox to one? I've got a really nice low mile GA16DE from a '91 B13 model Sentra. I'd like to put it in my '81 Datsun 210. I've tried mating a B310 five speed to it and the dowels do line up correctly, as well as three of the bell housing bolts. This was very encouraging. The problem is that the flywheel depth is not exactly the same and the flywheel starter teeth face the wrong way [the starter is mounted the opposite way on the B310].

 

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a RWD trans behind a GA series engine?

 

Mike

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I know that Nissan never made a rear wheel drive car with the GA family of engines it them [GA14, GA15, or GA16], but has anyone ever adapted another RWD gearbox to one? I've got a really nice low mile GA16DE from a '91 B13 model Sentra. I'd like to put it in my '81 Datsun 210. I've tried mating a B310 five speed to it and the dowels do line up correctly, as well as three of the bell housing bolts. This was very encouraging. The problem is that the flywheel depth is not exactly the same and the flywheel starter teeth face the wrong way [the starter is mounted the opposite way on the B310].

 

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a RWD trans behind a GA series engine?

 

Mike

Lols....great minds I guess. I was just thinking of this myself the other day and was asking a buddy this question. Seems even though aesthetically as that engine looks close to the sr20 it does not share the same bellhousing bolt pattern......I left it at that, lemme know if you find something cause Ive got one too.....

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I never found anything that would work. I had tried a couple years ago to find something but no luck

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The bell pattern I think is same as the E-series engine (E15, E16, etc).

If so most of the bolts will line up with an A14/A15 transmission.

Use crank trigger ($200) because the distributor's on the back of the head.

 

I have heard it was fitted to some RWD vehicle in Japan but this appears incorrect. Japanese Wikipedia lists a boatload of FWD models, and no RWD models.

 

The CA18DE is supposed to weigh the same amount, so is a much better power-to-weight ratio.

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GA16 was said to be in the last year of the Pulsar in the USA. Is it the same bolt pattern as the CA18DE?

 

possibly CA20e RWD 5-speed then?

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While I didn't try very hard, when I had a E15 transaxle off in my driveway it looked completely different than the A-series RWD transmission bellhousing pattern. I know Nissan used a different transaxle on the A14 equipped 310 vs the E15 equipped 310.

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I know that Nissan never made a rear wheel drive car with the GA family of engines it them [GA14, GA15, or GA16], but has anyone ever adapted another RWD gearbox to one? I've got a really nice low mile GA16DE from a '91 B13 model Sentra. I'd like to put it in my '81 Datsun 210. I've tried mating a B310 five speed to it and the dowels do line up correctly, as well as three of the bell housing bolts. This was very encouraging. The problem is that the flywheel depth is not exactly the same and the flywheel starter teeth face the wrong way [the starter is mounted the opposite way on the B310].

 

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a RWD trans behind a GA series engine?

 

Mike

 

 

How close is an A series flywheel to bolting up to the ga motor?

Just throwing ideas out there! :)

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I've got some renewed inspiration to look into this further. Back in 2006 Dave Patten designed this sweet adapter to mate a RWD trans to any FWD SR engine. Take a look: http://tinyurl.com/ljmes

 

Maybe the same can be done for our purposes? I'll get my four speed B210 trans out from under the bench and start taking some measurements to the back of my '91 GA16DE.

 

Mike

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Mike,

Hello, been a day or two. As you note by using a plate it could pick up the last transmission bolt.

 

Could the A serries starter be used on the GA16 by using a plate, does it clear the block? Or possibly using the GA16 starter bolted to the plate and removing a portion of the A series bellhousing to clear it?

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if the a series tranny is close, why not just take the time to make an adapter. i have a spare a series 63 5 speed tranny that i would love to have a ga16de in front of. can you post pics of the ga16de rear engine bolt pattern

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No adapter is needed --- the gearbox bolts up, but not all the bolt holes line up. The flywheel lines up too.

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Thanks guys. I'll get a closer look at it all after the holidays. As Dave knows, the measurement of the flywheel surface from bell housing flange has to be noted between both engines. T/O bearing clearance has to be considered as well. I need to measure both flywheels and see if the GA flywheel will even fit inside the A series bell housing.

 

Dave, thanks for the tip regarding my choices of how to mount a starter. I'll see which route I'll need to take. Pics coming soon.

 

Mike

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I know that Nissan never made a rear wheel drive car with the GA family of engines it them.
But they did make a van with one. The '91-'99 RWD Serena was available with the GA16DE in it. I have no idea what countries they were available in, but we don't have any of those here in the US, that's for sure.

 

Mike

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I am not familiar with GA stuff, but was searching around at 1200 swaps today and stumbled on this bit about the CG engines at datsun1200.com and some of the stufff they were saying about the e-series trans sounded familiar to this discussion.

 

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=CG_engine

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That was very interesting. Thank you Fisch. I'd like to browse the "swap" section of the 1200 forums some more. How did you navigate to that section there please?

 

Also, I found some info online that shows that Nissan actually did make a RWD GA16DE powered vehicle. The 90's Serena mini van's were available with the GA16DE and they are RWD. Here's a pic of the trans they used:

 

d1535.jpg

 

And here's something also needed when mounting a FWD GA to a RWD car:

 

919274577.jpg

 

Mike

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Very cool Mike! I actually have trouble getting around Datsun1200.com. Most things I find there via stumbling on them on google. That is how I found that bit of info.

 

Naturally I am interested in these little powerhouses for the confines of the '59. So I am following this thread with much interest.:D Did you see that someone got a CG up to 165 HP!:eek:

 

We need to find a couple of Serenas!

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I actually have trouble getting around Datsun1200.com. Most things I find there via stumbling on them on google. That is how I found that bit of info.
Thanks, I love the 1200 forums, but among other things I've never understood why we can't receive an email when someone replies to a subscribed thread. :confused:
Did you see that someone got a CG up to 165 HP!:eek:
Yes that was interesting. He built that for track racing and can keep it in the meat of the narrow powerband under those circumstances. However with a high winding small engine like that, I'd say that torque would be lacking quite a bit if it were to be used in a street car.

 

Mike

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I actually have trouble getting around Datsun1200.com. Most things I find there via stumbling on them on google

That's how I find everything. With Google. Now Datsun1200.com has a google search built right in ("Fast search" box on the left side of every page).

 

Good finds everything! Except oddly enough, Ratsun posts.

 

 

The 90's Serena mini van's were available with the GA16DE and they are RWD
2009 Serena still has it. Again, Datsun1200 has the information: http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=GA_Engine_Swap

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I've been scheming to swap a GA16DE into my '81 Datsun 210 for years. We all know that it is possible but I've set out to see if it is feasible. The first obstacle of course, is to see if a RWD trans could be adapted.

 

DSC06525-2.jpg

So I got out my spare low mile '91 engine and put a 210 five speed in front of it. The short answer is yes it can. Is it easy? No not really, but it is completely doable.

 

DSC06554-1.jpg

This is the 210 five speed's A14 plate placed on the back of the GA16DE block. The two block alignment dowels line right up and three of the bell housing bolts as well. This is a good start.

 

DSC06557-1.jpg

This shows the misaligment of the left upper bell housing bolt. This poses no problem to modify with adding a plug into the GA's original block hole and then redrilling and tapping a new hole to line up with the A14 trans.

 

DSC06547-1.jpg

Next, the trans will not go all the way into the back of the GA engine as is.

 

DSC06551-1.jpg

The problem is the 210 trans long input shaft bottoms out inside the back of the GA's crank. No big deal either. I simply drilled out the back of the crankshaft for the needed clearance and this problem was solved. I will measure the bore and seek just the right size ball bearing from the bearing supplier or machine a custom bronze pilot bushing if I have to.

 

DSC06544-1.jpg

The next obstacle is the starter and flywheel. The mods needed for this are to remove the GA's starter ring gear [it's facing the wrong way for RWD and the teeth are angled wrong. No biggie we'll just use the A14 ring gear and machine the back of the GA flywheel [where the pencil point is] for the interference press fit. The A14 gear will be installed from the back of the flywheel not the front as original.

 

DSC06595-1.jpg

The starters are mounted in opposite directions between the FWD GA and the RWD A14. It is best to go with the A14 starter and mount it in it's original location on the A14 trans. The rear lower corner of the GA block will need to be cut away to do this.

 

DSC06597-1.jpg

Now the two are mated and it is time to test fit the unit into the 210.

 

DSC06600-1-1.jpg

 

DSC06613-1.jpg

It goes right in, but there are more problems to solve.

 

DSC06612-1.jpg

From picturing this swap in my head all of these years, I knew that I would have to cut a hole in the firewall to clear the GA's distributor. But until I actually test fitted the engine in the car I did not realize that the throttle valve is also right into the firewall. The egr system was also in the way back there so I removed it.

 

DSC06617-2.jpg

The oil pan needs some slight clearancing to clear the crossmember as well.

 

DSC06615-2.jpg

This is where I am stalled right now. This can all be done but I am in need of some advice and inspration to continue. What would you do about the throttle valve in the firewall?

 

Anyone have any ideas?

 

Mike

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I love it! Notice how solving a problem just moves you to the next in a series? It's all good.

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Awesome pics showing exactly what needs to be done! Not as bad as I had thought. For the TB problem, I would think it may be easiest to cut the runners near the plenum and flip and reweld, if the centers are equal. Another thought would be to make a new upper manifold. For the distributor, it may be easier to adapt an EDIS setup, and leave the bare dizzy there for the cam angle sensor, if that is where it is on that motor.

 

Mark

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yep that's great work mike!

 

even if the serena was sold in the usa, it might well have been only with slushbox

in europe they're only worth scrap nowadays

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You could build a 90 degree elbow and install it between the throttlebody and the intake. Then the throttlebody would point into the recess behind the strut mount. 89'-up Thunderbirds with the 5.0 had a similar elbow, they used the same intake plenum as a 5.0 Stang but the throttlebody would not clear the Tbird hood.

 

OR

 

Cut 2 holes in the firewall and use an intake tube with 180 degree bend to get back into the engine compartment.

 

The 90 degree elbow is probably safer.

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No problems, just opportunities:

* Use a $200 crank trigger system, no distributor needed

* Fit sidedraft carbs. In South Africa they sell aftermarker DCOE manifolds if i recall correctly.

 

That engine looks great in the 210 engine bay!

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Here's the carburetor manifold for GA16:

 

23074.jpg

Rowland brand

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