HRH Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) Well, I finally got off my lazy ass and started going at the D21. For those who haven't followed, bought a 139K D21 extended cab with a rod knock. Just about have everything ready to yank the motor, waiting for the NAPA monroe store to get a load leveler shuttled over so I can pick it up there instead of driving all the way to the main. Anyway, going through this and it looks like the shop that did the head work was pretty shitty. Everything's there, but jeebus, all the wire clips on the fuel injector connectors are missing, there's evidence of little stuff forgotten everywhere, the engine looks as though it has been leaking even though they had the pan off and resealed, no doubt when they put the timing cover back on after the head was off. It looks okay, just all the attention to detail is what's missing. Oh, and I want to kick the Nissan engineers in the balls. Apparently they want you to remove the torsion bars to drop the front diff, as the front removable crossmember bolts don't come out. Or rather, the first two do, and the other two are shrouded on the backside by the torsion bar mount. I almost torched them off, but undid the bracket for the extension housing and wiggled it out that way. Fing MORONS!! What they should do with any vehicle is try and take it apart without a lift BEFORE they put it into production. [side note: I'm cooking Knorr noodles for lunch and they're made in Canada! WTF? We can't even make noodles in the USA anymore?! Fing A, Batman, no wonder I buy Japanese.] So anyway, I keep looking for the rear mount for the engine hoist, doesn't seem to be there. Figure the shop must have forgotten it. Anyone with a SOHC KA know where the rear hookup is supposed to be? I'll post some pictures tonight after I get the motor out and hopefully apart. Curious to see what kind of rebuilding I'm going to need to do. Edited August 19, 2009 by HRH Quote Link to comment
yello620 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Just about have everything ready to yank the motor, waiting for the NAPA monroe store to get a load leveler shuttled over so I can pick it up there instead of driving all the way to the main. QUOTE] Imagine that, waiting on one of those counter monkeys to actually do their job. Been having bad luck with our local NAPA lately. All the counterman have realised that they have NO competition in town(except AZ), and their "giveashit" level is dropping fast. Even in times like these where customer service is so important. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 No no, Monroe store, (Monroe and NW Blvd.) Not morons. :) I'm surprised to hear your NAPA is performing poorly. Normally I'd just figure you were a moron customer bitching about not knowing something, but having met you at Canby, I doubt that's the case. (Like the people who call wanting head torque specs for their motor, but don't want to buy a Haynes manual.) Have you tried talking with their store manager? I don't know how they're missing out on competition from everyone else, Spokane is a death market. We have Autozone, Schmucks, Motion, Carquest and who knows what else trying to cut in to our profits. Heck, we're price matching a lot more than we used to. As far as I know, everyone's down right now. My corporate level doesn't extend to Oregon, otherwise I'd know what's up, but there's no excuse for not caring. I'd seriously talk to the manager/owner of the store if it's privately owned. That ought to get some results. If it doesn't, that store won't be in business very long. Just out of my curiosity, any particular examples of dropping the ball? Quote Link to comment
yello620 Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 No no, Monroe store, (Monroe and NW Blvd.) Not morons. :) I'm surprised to hear your NAPA is performing poorly. Normally I'd just figure you were a moron customer bitching about not knowing something, but having met you at Canby, I doubt that's the case. (Like the people who call wanting head torque specs for their motor, but don't want to buy a Haynes manual.) Have you tried talking with their store manager? I don't know how they're missing out on competition from everyone else, Spokane is a death market. We have Autozone, Schmucks, Motion, Carquest and who knows what else trying to cut in to our profits. Heck, we're price matching a lot more than we used to. As far as I know, everyone's down right now. My corporate level doesn't extend to Oregon, otherwise I'd know what's up, but there's no excuse for not caring. I'd seriously talk to the manager/owner of the store if it's privately owned. That ought to get some results. If it doesn't, that store won't be in business very long. Just out of my curiosity, any particular examples of dropping the ball? Manager has been talked too many times, sales rep has been talked too also. This is a privately owned store, he owns several in the area, including the one in Canby. And he has been in business for many years now, i think that he bought his first store in the late 80's. They simply dont have enough competition in the town, They have AZ down the street. And then CQ about 18 miles and two towns away. Or another Napa about 10 miles away, but he owns that one too. The most recent parts problem..I needed the nice fuel injection style hose clamps, the ones that dont cut the crap out of the hose. You would think that they would stock lots of them. Ordered 8 at about 10:00 in the morning, inventory said they had 10(using the online dealer ordering system). They called back and said they only had 4 and the other four would arrive to us about 12:30 from the warehouse(and we know that means 1:30). Ok, no big deal. 3:00 no clamps, not even the first 4. Called, said they could not find them. 4:00 called, still could not find them. 4:45, got ahold of the sales rep. We close normally at 5:00, At 5:15 i got the first four clamps, WTF? Billed for four clamps. Monday goes by, no clamps, called about five times. Tuesday, I got my other four clamps at around 3:30 in the afternoon, billed for all eight. Not normally this bad, but it sure makes all the other little screw ups stand out and piss a person off. Quote Link to comment
izzo Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 (edited) I have had problems with them in the past also. but we have been over that road i wont buy shit thru them unless i absolutely have to. They are the only part store here in seaside and astoria and will NOT price match. Bastards charge me 5 or 6 times what other stores are for the exact same part. F napa Ill stick with rock auto or wait till i get somewhere else to buy my parts Edited August 20, 2009 by h2theizzo Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Dammit! That's not the kind of shit I like to hear!!!! I love NAPA!! But being there are privately owned stores and corporate owned stores, experiences are going to vary. It's all about the people operating the store. Hell, I can't tell you how many fires I put out trying to keep our customers happy, and even I can't win them all. But really, it all comes down to communication. Sounds like they're dropping the ball on that. h2theizzo: I'm sorry man, that truly sucks. I can't imagine they're that bad over there. You can come buy stuff from my Spokane NAPA, we'll treat you right! Long drive tho. Anyway, pictures! As promised: Quote Link to comment
izzo Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Man thats a good looking hardbody Better take more pics along the way :D Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Ah it's a ka, well that makes the job easier at least. My hard body gained 2 dents when I yanked the vg, one from my fist and the other from my foot. I found that deep reservoir in the rear of the pan VERY annoying, there is like no play between it and the cross member. The vg and ka seem to share it. I have a very deep hatred for my d21 every time I have to work on it and a deep love every time I have to haul or tow or w/e. It just works all the time even if it's sloppy and in need of repair. Working on it, esp one all rusted up with 260k miles on top of the ass backward way nissan designed it has to be one of the levels of hell though. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I actually don't find it all that bad, just certain things. But I also wouldn't get a VG simply because the KA is cramped enough in the engine bay. I'll put gears in it if I need to, but nuts to the V6. I'd put it in the 510 before I stuck it in the hardbody. Already thought of the pan, though don't know what else to do short of a dry sump system, which I'd love but is expensive and not needed since I got the thing out anyway. And probably a shallower pan would lead to oil starvation while off-roading, so I guess I should get the sand out of my vagina and just deal with it! :D Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Ya I thought about changing it too but then I though well if I'm sideways I'll be thankful it's there. Its just lining up the input shaft while that sump has to sit right there with the cross member to me was hell. I wasn't using a leveler on the cherry picker though I bet that makes a world of dif. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Ya I thought about changing it too but then I though well if I'm sideways I'll be thankful it's there. Its just lining up the input shaft while that sump has to sit right there with the cross member to me was hell. I wasn't using a leveler on the cherry picker though I bet that makes a world of dif. YES! It does. I'd still be cursing if I didn't have that. Kept borrowing one from my Datsun guru, finally just bought one from where else, NAPA! Employee purchases rock! Part number 520-6006 if any of you care to rush out and get one! If you're in Spokane, as for the super homie hookup Datsun discount. (Main store only) Quote Link to comment
Guest DatsuNoob Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 I pulled the 4 bolts that held my lower suspension brace in, went in and out sooooooo much more smooth. Lookin good Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 So I knew that hardbodies had been made in Mexico for a long time, but I didn't realize they made the castings for the KA....kinda weird. I'm tearing apart the KA today and found this: Quote Link to comment
Bleach Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Icehouse could have done this work in like 5 minutes... in fact, he took a KA24e out of a 4x4 and swapped it into his 620 in about 15 minutes. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 :D Tell him to get his ass down here then! I'm comfortable with the L, know pretty much every bolt on it, but the KAs I had previously I never had to work on, hence it's taking me a lot longer. Plus I tend to be anal-retentive, and I'm checking all the threads for pulling, etc. Already found a couple shitty examples from monkey hands working on the motor. Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I thought just the 240sx and like 94+altima ka's were from japan, the rest that made it to the u.s. were producto de mexico. Quote Link to comment
Bleach Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 :D Tell him to get his ass down here then! I don't think you can handle working at Icehouse speed. I tried to work on cars with him once... I lost consciousness. The guy is insane! :eek: Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Well, today ended on a superbly shitty note. Would you like to know why? Ok, I'll tell you all. My super sleuthing has deduced the following: 1. Original dipshit owner monkey hops in d21 and shatters the timing assembly. What appears to have happened is the big bolt on the bottom of the tensioning shoe came out first and rattled around like, well, a big ass bolt in an engine cavity. The tensioner shoe then got eaten up by the chain, and all the little valves went ka-bonk against the pistons. 2. Dipshit owner monkey gets out, says, "Oh fuck!" He proceeds to get dipshit owner monkey's buddy, dipshit monkey number 2 over to help him out. Naturally, they decide to put a new timing chain in, throw on a new head, and do it with the engine in the car. 3. Dipshit monkey number 2 says, "Hey, do we need an oil pan gasket?" Original dipshit owner monkey says, "Hell no! We can probably reuse these bearings, right? They look good." So the two dipshit monkeys put it all back together, failing to see that the ricocheting bolt has not only put a tear crack in the block skirt, and has become jammed inbetween the crank bells to the point of wearing a hole in the oil galley passage. 4. Original dipshit owner monkey sells truck to unsuspecting monkey kid with no mechanical experience, who promptly blows the head gasket. Monkey kid takes it to a shop, has them rebuild the head, new gasket, new timing chain, and drives it for a day before it starts making a horrible clacking noise. 5. Dipshit buyer monkey (me) goes down wanting the truck (mistake) and assumes the clacking is just a detonation issue related to a sensor. So there you have it. I now own a kick-ass hardbody with a KA paper weight. Not sure I want to fix the block. I may just get another motor. I can have my Datsun guru weld both problem issues and then have the block line honed and bored. The crank may be gone. It has some horrible ridges in it. I'll probably need at least .020" off the rods and mains, and if it's more than that, there's not much point. I can't tell, but almost wonder if the crank was a replacement unit. The holes drilled to balance it were pretty sloppy. One even went through the side because it wasn't on center. Anyway, I'm kind of disappointed now and the pictures tell the rest of the story. Enjoy! :eek: (Oh yeah, didn't throw in the rod bearing pictures. They looked worse than the mains.) Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 That is some impressive damage, those bearings looks lovely. They had to have known something, esp when they sold it. No one thats stupid, well maybe some but I don't buy it. Take it as a blessing, drop a vg30e in there and have a proper d21 :-). Nice straight forward swap. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Here's a thought: Has anyone put a KA head on a Z24 bottom end. I know of the guys doing L20s with KA heads, but having issues of custom chains and other things due to the block height difference. But a Z24, should be about the same height. The block bolt pattern seems to be the same, I didn't adjust the motor stand mounts from when I had the L motor on, and it fastened right up. Reason I'm even considering this is because I have a crappy z24 laying around, but the block and crank is in decent shape. Think I may go out and measure and compare pans. Maybe I'd be able to use that with just a little welding on the head for that water passage that doesn't line up. If it was just that though, it wouldn't be too bad. And you know, I was just thinking. I'm glad I got this mess, simply because what if someone else had bought it, and just ended up getting screwed? At least I can fix it, not that I'm happy about the carnage, but I'm fully capable of putting the truck back to running order. And instead of going to the crusher with a bad motor, it's going to be saved and driven. I'm not kidding about that, you know how many hardbodys I've seen at the pick and pulls lately with fairly decent bodies? It's getting ridiculous, and the stupid bastards wanting so much for them finally sell them to the wrecking yard when they can't get what they want from a private buyer. Anyway, lemons to lemonade I guess. Edited August 26, 2009 by HRH Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 So I just measured the KA and the Z24. The block heights are the same. So far the major difference is the timing cover and the oil pan on the KA has a lot less holes to mount. That's as easy as trimming off the mounting flange on the KA pan and replacing it with the Z24 pan mounting flange. The big problem I see is having the water outlet on the KA timing cover housing the thermostat. I'd have to figure a way around that, and the PCV oddity being attached to the side would also have to be reworked. Not impossible, in fact, quite possible, just a lot of work for not much other than I already have a Z24 block. Think I'll be looking for a spare KA block, partially dependent on my Datsun guru's inspection of the parts tomorrow. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 So I ran the block down today to have Joe look at it, and he talked to his buddy that runs a 510 racecar and uses KA motors, and apparently the Z24 cranks/rods and KA24 cranks/rods are interchangeable. Which means I can have Joe weld up the block and oil galley, then use the Z24 motor internals and have a functional engine again. The KA crank is junk, the ridges are way too deep. It's now a paperweight. So I'm going to do some measuring and test fitting here in a second, but I might be able to save her after all! I'm getting happier! :) Quote Link to comment
72240z Posted August 26, 2009 Report Share Posted August 26, 2009 Z24 rods are way beefier too from what a remember seeing. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Rods are identical. The crank is near the same, though the Z24 is slightly longer, not my much, not enough to matter. The big problem is the crank snout on the Z24 is much larger in diameter, which means the KA front cover seal does not work, nor does the timing gear and dist. gear. The only option it appears is to have the crank snout turned on a lathe to match the diameter of the KA snout. While this is certainly possible, again, it's kind of a pain in the ass. But luckily, I called my work (NAPA), and unlike older L motor stuff, I can get a KA crank brand new with rods and bearings for under $200 bucks my cost. Which is fing fantastic, so I'm going to go that route. Block is down at Joe's to be welded. Looks like she will be running again, with all KA internals. I'll post pictures later of the two cranks/rods shown together. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted August 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Pictures as promised: Cool paperweight KA crank. Z24 crank fits in the block just fine, turns fine. Z crank snout. Big! This is what would need to be turned down on the lathe to match the KA snout. KA crank snout. Tiny! Z/L pulley at left. KA on the right. The one I'm pointing to is the KA piston/rod. Quote Link to comment
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