Circuit Breaker Question

[datzenmike]

You are no longer "DatzenMike".You are now"Mike-the-Welder".:lol:

 

LOL Naw, it was 'Mike the Younger'. Oh fuck, we all started somewhere. :D

[thisismatt]

You don't see a fuse/breaker typically between battery and starter because they're usually right next to each other in the engine compartment, not in the trunk, and not in the trunk running 0ga wire the length of your car, next to your gas tank & interior. Now you do, and now you get into a 10mph fender bender that pinches your starter wire somewhere along the 15 foot run from your battery to starter along a bunch of potentially flammable interior, gasoline, and whatever else you're carrying. But run it however you like, it's your car.

[Z-train]

You don't see a fuse/breaker typically between battery and starter because they're usually right next to each other in the engine compartment, not in the trunk, and not in the trunk running 0ga wire the length of your car, next to your gas tank & interior. Now you do, and now you get into a 10mph fender bender that pinches your starter wire somewhere along the 15 foot run from your battery to starter along a bunch of potentially flammable interior, gasoline, and whatever else you're carrying. But run it however you like, it's your car.

 

 

How is a fender bender going to impact a cable run inside the frame rails or in the upper portion of the trans tunnel?

 

This topic is bordering on paranoia.

[mklotz70]

okay then.....how about major impact where you're just praying that they can pry you out of the car cause your broken up bad, but still awake......so you can feel every second of the burning of the fire caused by the shorted batt cable.......and as you watch the fire from your car spread to the other vehicle, you see the child in the back seat crying cause mommy was knocked out....too bad this is on a road that isn't traveled much.....no jaws of life saving your rear this time.....enjoy the view until the pain gets too bad.................................................if not for the fire, you'd have made it through okay........but this is a question of paranoia...not of safety.....right??? :)

[thisismatt]

How is a fender bender going to impact a cable run inside the frame rails or in the upper portion of the trans tunnel?

 

This topic is bordering on paranoia.

I'd say it's bordering on idiocy. Besides accidents causing failure of the jacket, there are a lot of sharp marbles around. Who was the guy on here whose positive cable shorted out inside his cab and he grabbed it and burned his hand on the now supersized toaster wire?

[datsunaholic]

I kind of wonder if anyone actually has ever done this, as I haven't seen 12V circuit breakers with that kind of rating. You have to have a breaker that can handle the lock-load rating of the starter, which as I mentioned back on page 1 is up to 500A.

 

Here's what we do in our vintage race boats. We have up to 20 FEET between the batteries and the starter, and it's a 24V system (which actually draws LESS current so the cables can be smaller, but that's another point). We put the starter relay (aka the starter solenoid) back with the batteries, and run the starter lead from there. So, the main starter cable isn't energized all the time, just the short run from the battery to the relay (solenoid).

 

Now, for this to work on a car, you would need to tap the 12V for everything else at the battery, not off the starter lug which I see a lot of people do (so they only have to run one new wire). You could then easily put a small breaker to protect that wire, which would run to the fuse box.

[]2eDeYe]

Holic, that's probably the best way, then you only have that short lead from the battery to the relay.

 

 

 

Here is the fuse 100amp fuse and holder I used.

 

Got these from mcmaster.com $30 for one link and 3 fuses.

 

9180K9

Time-Delay Low-Voltage Fuse 32 VDC, 100 to 250 Amps

 

 

These would probably even work in a starter application as they are designed for low-voltage automotive and electronic applications with high currents. They will not blow when exposed to harmless temporary overload currents such as motor start-ups and switching surges.

 

Up to 2000 amps temporary overload. So they will blow if something is permanently shorted and prevent any fire.

 

I have mine next to the battery and it supplies all power (other than starting) to my Jeeps fusebox.

[thisismatt]

You could run the 1/0 to your starter using a dedicated starter relay that only engages the 1/0 for starting and piggyback a smaller, perhaps 4ga, run to power everything else with a fuse on the 4ga and no fuse on the 0ga, but that way the 0ga is only engaged at starting.

I love quoting myself :fu:

[]2eDeYe]

haha :D

[hang_510]

And that whole Pinto thing was a scam by "Nader-types".

in HS we saw my friends pinto get rear endend (while parked) by someone going less than 10mph. didnt burst into flames...but did catch on fire from the impact alone.

even the auto shop teacher, who drove a pinto, was :eek:

 

 

 

I love quoting myself :fu:

 

and since were talking ford...their starter soleniod is used for this safety upgrade.

 

 

 

BTW you can jumper the "+" , and energize the relay, then its an easy theft :blink:

w/o any other protection methods

[datsunaholic]

 

 

BTW you can jumper the "+" , and energize the relay, then its an easy theft :blink:

w/o any other protection methods

 

 

It is only if you use the same relay to power everything, which isn't a good idea because then the starter wire will be "hot" when the system is energized and it doesn't need to be. If you ONLY use the relay to operate the starter, then all you do is spin the starter- and then only if the bendix and starter motor are wired together. The car won't start because the rest of the system isn't powered up. It's no different than shorting the existing starter main wire to the bendix with a screwdriver. It'll turn the engine but it won't start.

[thisismatt]

Just in case there was still any doubt about a car catching fire from a short...

 

http://www.violentrunning.squidd.org/news/2009/07/goodnight-sleep-tight/

[Z-train]

Battery shorted.A CB would have done NOTHING to prevent this.

[thisismatt]

Battery shorted.A CB would have done NOTHING to prevent this.

You think a direct battery short is much different than a length of 0ga shorting out? :rolleyes:

[Z-train]

ANd how would a CB prevent a battery short?

[thisismatt]

ANd how would a CB prevent a battery short?

The US armed forces should do research on your head - maybe they could synthesize its density properties for use on armor piercing missile tips.

[Z-train]

The US armed forces should do research on your head - maybe they could synthesize its density properties for use on armor piercing missile tips.

 

 

This coming from someone who has his head so far up his ass he needs a "glass eye" installed in his belly button.

 

CB's in the starting circuit is a stupid fucking idea.

 

No car manufacturer does it.

No truck maker does it.

No locomotive maker does it

 

Race cars don't have them.

Motorcycles don't have

PWC's don't have them

 

NO-ONE FUCKING HAS THEM.

 

TAKE THE FUCKING HINT.

 

You really are a safe distance from genius.

[thisismatt]

This coming from someone who has his head so far up his ass he needs a "glass eye" installed in his belly button.

 

CB's in the starting circuit is a stupid fucking idea.

 

No car manufacturer does it.

No truck maker does it.

No locomotive maker does it

 

Race cars don't have them.

Motorcycles don't have

PWC's don't have them

 

NO-ONE FUCKING HAS THEM.

 

TAKE THE FUCKING HINT.

 

You really are a safe distance from genius.

First of all, I'm not arguing circuit breakers, just protecting yourself. Secondly, how many manufacturers do you know of that run 0ga from the trunk to the starter leaving it hot at all times?

 

Weren't you the one arguing about LA not having smog? :lol:

[72240z]

I don't want to argue and just throwing this out there but bimmer uses a cut off circuit breaker (optional) that is wired into the airbags. When airbags are deployed the breaker pops cutting the bat and hazards come on automaticly.

ALL (rear bat)bimmers come with this for use during transport but are usually returned to the dealer once delivered and hard wired again. The option to keep it is there though. It was on my old 325.

I hear tell its not even an option anymore, it's standard, but Idk about that part 100%.

 

With in a few years cars are going to start coming 24v and I bet good money the practice becomes common place. If nothing else but to calm people freaked out over the change.

Edited July 11, 2009 by 72240z

[Z-train]

1)First of all, I'm not arguing circuit breakers, just protecting yourself. 2)Secondly, how many manufacturers do you know of that run 0ga from the trunk to the starter leaving it hot at all times?

 

3)Weren't you the one arguing about LA not having smog? :lol:

 

 

 

1)WHy protect yourself from something that doesn't exist?

2)Irrelevant.No-one does it.

3)In relative terms-they don't.

[71ka510]

2008 lancer evo x.... has trunk mounted battery, with 0g wire running from the trunk, though interior, up to a fusible link in the engine bay, then over to the fuse box.... looked at it last week...... so i wouldnt be too worried, mitsubishi rolls the sh*t out thier cars in rally haha and no fuse near rear mounted battery.....