KGC10 Skyline 2000GT Build

[banzai510(hainz)]

14.1 is PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

now scam a VDO meter from a old VW ,OPEL Mercesdes

[Babalouie]

Aha...after 4wks of driving (interrupted by wheelbearing and alternator issues) we are finally over 2000kms :) Even though we'd done one at 1000kms, Nathan recommended an oil change, since there'd be a fair bit of fuel in the oil since Webers overfuel a little at the best of times, and there might be a fair bit of it sucked into the crankcase as rings bedded in.

 

We'd used 2 sumpfuls of normal-grade mineral oil, but now that we have a few kms on, this time, it's 4L of Royal Purple 10W~40 Synthetic. The old oil that drained out was very black and smelly, so Nathan was right, and with the new oil it's smoother and picked up a bit of oil pressure too.

 

This weekend also gave me an opportunity to do some minor tinkering. You might recall that the previous Japanese owner had a bit of a gauge fetish. Six Omori gauges: three vacuum gauges (all hooked up to the manifold balance tube, so they all said the same thing), one water temp gauge (which died a few mths ago), an oil pressure gauge and an oil temp gauge, whose sender was ziptied to the side of the engine bay (and hence whose indications of oil temp might be called into question somewhat)

 

But now we've narrowed that down to just one supplementary gauge for oil pressure.

 

The Omori water temp gauge died, so I decided to reinstate the stock gauge.

 

The thermostat housing had, however been modified to take the Omori sender, and while you can still get the stock sender (240Z & 510) from Nissan, they couldn't source the brass nut that locks the sender in place.

 

My mate Greg gave me a thermostat housing from a spare engine he had (from a Patrol of all things) which had a working stock sender. To test the sender and gauge, it's pretty easy, just hook up the sender to the stock gauge wire and dunk the sender in a cup of hot water. The gauge leapt to life, so that meant that everything was working and we could button it all together. The new thermostat cover isn't chromed like the old one was but it polished up pretty good anyway.

 

Anyone want some Omori gauges? :) For a time, Omori gauges were tremendously popular in Japan and you can see why. They're mechanical rather than electrical, so you just hook up the sender, and the only wiring you need to do is for lights. Inside that coil spring cover is a mercury-filled copper tube I think.

 

So far (touch wood) the car's going great. Now that it's got some kms up I'm not so scared to push it, although it does have a certain "untuned" feel to it, it's rather fast :) What has come to light is that the rear suspension needs a fair bit of sorting. Driving normally it seems fine, but give the loud pedal the full beans and it sits down at the back like a motorboat and starts pogo-ing off the bumpstops. I think it's probably a combination of not enough suspension travel before the bumpstop coming into play, the spring being too soft and the shocks not being in tiptop shape, but stiffer springs would be a good start.

[banzai510(hainz)]

the brass sender holder is a 16mm

25251-37700 in the USA

http://www.nissanparts.cc/cart/?pn=25251-37700

 

 

maybe you have a aussie nissan wholeparts supplier

[Babalouie]

The guys at the local Nissan dealer couldn't find the part # for the brass nut in their parts listings. I was sure it's available since I've seen it on eBay but the second hand housing was a good alternative anyhoo

[Pedro]

 

I'm guessing that's the business park underpass down near belrose. I used to work just on the other side of that tunnel.

 

I'm sure you've heard it before, but you need to lower this thing again!

[djlotus]

Mmmmmmmmmmm. I've followed your thread over at JNC. Didn't know you were over here too. How much you lookin to get for them gauges?

[Babalouie]

Mmmmmmmmmmm. I've followed your thread over at JNC. Didn't know you were over here too. How much you lookin to get for them gauges?

Well it seems that lots of ppl have PMd me saying they want them, so we'll see if any of those guys are serious, but I'm not after any real money for them, after all they are second hand and from a set where at least one of them has worn out and broken :D

 

I'm guessing that's the business park underpass down near belrose. I used to work just on the other side of that tunnel.

 

I'm sure you've heard it before, but you need to lower this thing again!

Indeed it is, mate :)

 

And no, we're already struggling with suspension travel as it is (and we're going to track it, so it has to work) if anything the ride height will go up a smidge soon.

[fisch]

BAbalouie, I love your ride man! It is a pleasure to follow this thread!

[Babalouie]

Okay, I had a go at fixing the rear suspension's lack of wheel travel, and the first thing was to take the springs out so that I could move the rear suspension up and down to measure things.

 

First step is to unbolt the shock and the driveshafts, so that you lever down the suspension arm low enough to release the spring from its little hidey-hole.

 

...which also allowed me to check up on the rear wheel bearings, which spin freely and sweetly and the stake nuts are still nice and tight.

 

With the spring out of the way, I jack up the rear suspension arm to simulate the normal ride height, which leaves 6cm between wheelarch and tyre.

 

At that point there is lots of travel left in the shock, the lower tape mark is where the shock will bottom out, and the top tape mark is a hypothetical Camaro Koni that we've been thinking about. Koni don't make a Sport adjustable shock for the Hako Skyline, but a friend looked thru the Koni catalog and found that Koni does make a shock that will bolt up to the Hako, it's intended for an '82 Camaro but is slightly longer than the KYB shock I have in the car. So part of this exercise was to see if the Camaro Konis would work out.

 

But as we know, if I jack up the suspension there isn't much travel before the bumpstop comes into play, and this is what's causing the ride to be so bouncy, especially under full power.

 

So now I think about shortening the bumpstop, to get it to come in "later" and so free up some bump travel. On the right is the tall bumpstop from Protec-S20 with the nylon spacer I made, and on the left is a shorter bumpstop with the spacer discarded and just a short stack of washers instead.

 

Just for fun, I bolted in the bumpstop without any spacers or washers at all and it's a bit tight. By the time the bumpstop comes in, you can hardly squeeze a finger between tyre and bodywork. I'm thinking there's too little room for error so I stick with the idea of stacking washers under it.

 

Oh, and at that point, the hypothetical Camaro Koni has already bottomed out, so I'll definitely need a shorter shock than that alternative.

 

While we are at it, I also wanted to sort out the spring rate issue. The red Japanese springs were too short and too soft, and needed some thick spring spacers from Kameari Engine Works to get a decent ride height. The tall yellow spring is a 600 pound lowered spring for a C110 240K Kenmeri Skyline but that resulted in a 4x4 ride height in the Hako (the stiffness was just about perfect though)....so Stewart Wilkins Racing lent me a short 600pound spring to try. The yellow spring is 250mm tall, the red one (with spacer) is 240mm tall and the borrowed blue spring is 220mm tall.

 

With the new shortened bumpstop and borrowed springs in place, this is the ride height we get.

 

The new springs have raised it 15mm, so we have 75mm between tyre and bodywork, and the bumpstop doesn't come into play until the last 20mm. So that means 55mm of bumptravel.

 

And...it's great! The ride is immeasurably better, no more bouncy-bouncy pogo-ing over bumps and undulations and I can hoon over those traffic calming suburban road humps without bottoming out on the bumpstops. The stiffness is just right. So far the shocks seem to be okay, so possibly we got a bad impression of them because they were fighting against the bumpstop.

 

We'll see how we go over the next few days, but so far I think we're sorted: the spring balance is better (250F/600R) and we have 2+ins of travel before the bumpstop. I hope that the remaining 20mm of travel is enough for the bumpstop to do its thing and prevent the tyre from shredding the bodywork, but with the stiffer spring that's got to help too. I think maybe we can go up another 100 pounds on the rear spring but so far it seems pretty balanced...oh and I guess I have to go to Stewart Wilkins to make some financial arrangements which do not involve me giving his springs back :)

[Edz280zx]

Good work mang! Just goes to prove that lower isn't necessarily better.

[boomstickracing]

it's so beautifull :D wish they wern't so spendy to get one here in the states :(

[bonvo]

one thing i find interesting is that the sky line uses rear suspention simmilar to the 510 instead of the s30 the s30 is the better set up (stock coil over minimal geomitry changes threw the motion)the car that supposed to be the top of the line uses a weaker design weird

[Babalouie]

Well the history of the C10 Skyline is very intertwined with the 510....

 

In the mid 60s, the Skyline was made by Prince, which was a separate company to Nissan (in fact a bitter rival). But by the mid 60s Prince was more or less on the verge of bankruptcy and so the Japanese govt orchestrated a takeover of Prince by Nissan. Back then, the govt had a lot of hands-on involvement in planning Japan's postwar recovery, and so couldn't allow Prince to go bust and for all its staff to be laid off, manufacturing expertise lost etc...

 

In 1965, a year before the takeover, both the 510 and the C10 Skyline were on the respective drawing boards at Nissan and Prince. Seeing the writing on the wall, the Skyline design team paid a visit to the Nissan design centre, and the two design chiefs (Sakurai-san for Prince and Ohta-san for Nissan) got along like a house on fire, and rather surprisingly, the Prince guys get shown the 510 designs and prototype and a lot of knowledge is shared.

 

Back at the (Prince) ranch the Hako Skyline prototype gets hurriedly modified to adopt certain Nissan parts, most notably the suspension and lots of minor components like the hydraulic parts etc. This was seen as a necessary compromise to ensure that the Skyline would make it to production after the takeover...

 

In 1966 Nissan officially takes over Prince, and in 1967 the 510 gets unveiled (and ushers in a new era for Nissan of course). About 6mths after that, the C10 Skyline goes on sale, with (some) Nissan engines and a lot of parts sharing with 510. It's very arguable that if this parts-sharing didn't take place, the Skyline might not have gone on sale so quickly (or maybe not at all).

 

So the C10 Skyline is a lot closer to the 510 than the S30 Zed, with a lot of interchangeable parts. When I go shopping for parts and if I don't know if a certain part will fit, I usually ask for 510 parts instead of Zed parts.

[boomstickracing]

thats awesome history....i knew about nissan taking over prince but didn't know all the details that you just told.......thanks :D

[irsa76]

Good to finally see this car here babs, for our American friends this car is one of the most popular over at performanceforums. It's safe to say most people over there wait for an update from Babalouie with bated breath.

[72240z]

I think it's on every datsun fans top 5 list.

 

Personally wouldn't sweat it but it's nice to see for sure, looking good too.

[Babalouie]

Since we got the car rego'd last year, we've been using a modern Nardi Deep Corn steering wheel, which has been nice.

 

But the wheel the car came with was a Nismo Compe.

 

At the time, I didn't know what it was, but after a bit of research it turned out that the Compe is the aftermarket steering wheel from Nissan Sport Corner-R in the early 70s. It's very similar to a 240Z wheel but smaller in diameter and with a thick, squashy urethane rim that looks like leather but isn't. When Nismo had its 10th anniversary in 1992, they re-issued 1000 of these old Compe wheels, and it turns out that our wheel is one of these re-issues, so it's pretty cool.

 

But while the urethane rim was in good shape, the spokes did have a bit of patina in the form of some rust.

 

So we rub back the spokes with 400-grit emery until all the rust is gone and we're down to shiny metal

 

And in between the spokes to clean up the rust there too

 

Then sand it all over with finer 800-grit to feather the edges of the existing paint (so that they're not visible under the new paint) and to rough up the surface in general to give the new paint something to key to.

 

Then clean the spokes with prepsol

 

Then mask...

 

Then 2 coats of etch primer (they call it etch primer because it has an acid element in it which eats into bare metal to stick better)

 

Then we use VHT Roll Bar Black, which is something I use all the time, as it's very versatile (as you'll see).

 

First you start off with some very light misting coats, just 2-3 passes. After 3 passes, it should still be pretty light, and not full coverage yet (so you still see some primer poking thru)

 

After 2-3 misting coats, you give it a heavy coat, and then a 5th misting coat. At that point, the finish you get is like this:

 

And when it dries, it looks like this, which is close-ish to the factory finish. I've found that if you want a more smooth finish, like a powdercoated finish, then the 4th and 5th coats can be heavier. And if you want a more satin/matt finish, like on my mirrors, then you just keep going with the misting coats until you get full coverage. It dries fast and so you can recoat after 5mins, and so it's not as time consuming as it sounds, but I use this a lot, for the fender mirrors, wiper arms, you name it.

 

One last addition before it goes on the car is this horn button. At first I really didn't like that massive, chunky DATSUN Compe hornpad, but over time I have to say I've gotten used to it and have to admit that it IS very appropriately 1970s.

 

But the original 2000GT-Rs came with this steering wheel, and you can now get replica 2000GT-R hornpads which fit onto the Compe wheel.

 

The GT-R hornpad is an interesting one. There is actually no "Nissan" anywhere on the Hako. While the Hako was sold as a Nissan it is actually more of a product of the defunct Prince company, and in the wake of the 1966 takeover of Prince by Nissan, the C10 Skyline was born under some pretty serious corporate politics. So the 2000GT-R has a hornpad which actually is a throwback to the old Prince logo, except that there is an "N" instead of a "P". You can read the full story in issue #3 of Japanese Nostalgic Car Magazine :D

 

...and the restored Compe wheel is ready to go back in the car.

[Edz280zx]

Nice work man.....you wanna sell that Nardi???? lol

[Babalouie]

Hehe...you're like the 57th person to ask about the Nardi :) But nah, I think I'll keep it as the "daily" steering wheel and save the Compe for occasional use.

 

Well here's the Compe installed...

 

[Edz280zx]

haha...I figured I would be...

 

The Compe looks tough..good job!

[djlotus]

Well it seems that lots of ppl have PMd me saying they want them, so we'll see if any of those guys are serious, but I'm not after any real money for them, after all they are second hand and from a set where at least one of them has worn out and broken :D

If for some reason the other people pass on it, lmk. My car has no real theme and I like having obscure shit. Hell, I snagged an old 12v clock from an old Benz so I can have some way to tell time. Pretty sure it's going into some sort of gauge pod :)

 

 

Back on topic, car is looking good. That steering wheel/horn button looks awesome.

[Babalouie]

 

Alrighty...the dynotune is booked for Wednesday, so it's time to finish off the fuel pump install. You mgith recall that the car came with an aftermarket electric pump already, a 22gph Mitsuba which was rated to 250hp or so. Since we all want the engine to do rather better than that, I bought a 72gph Carter fuel pump from Jamie, a good mate.

 

Firstly I installed the pump, which goes inside the boot. It's basically in the same spot the 2000GT-Rs had them, which is to say on the boot floor, about level with the bottom of the tank (which lives behind the back seat). I start off with some speedholes in a little vertical ledge in the wheelarch. You can also see in this pic the Carter bracket and an aluminium spacer I made up to help it all fit. The idea is to have the pump below the fuel tank, so that there is a siphonign effect to keep the pump primed, even when the car is off. Otherwise the pump will have to struggle grabbing air for a few seconds every time you start it, which will wear the pump bad.

 

 

Fits good. Jamie bent the bracket a certain way for his Lancer installation, and now I've bent it the other way, so it does look a bit ghetto, but it's solid.

 

Remove the back seat, which gives good access to the fuel hoses going down thru the floorpan

 

Clamp the stock line to stop fuel from spilling everywhere...

 

The 40yr old hose didn't come out easy, I had to cut a slit in it and prise it off.

 

It wasn't easy underneath either, and the stock hose clamp was pretty seized with rust too.

 

But in the end I got the old hose off and a new hose onto it.

 

Up thru the stock grommet in the floor...I dunno about this next bit, but I used conduit tubing in spots where I though the hose might rub against something. Not really sure if it's necessary, but it seemed like a good idea to give the new hoses some abrasion resistance

 

Run a new line from the tank to the input side of the Carter, and run the new hose from under the car to the output side, slip on some more conduit tubes and it's done.

 

The stock fuel hose material is interesting...it's like a clear plastic tube. It's a bit hard now but not cracked or brittle, and after 40yrs still worked.

 

Under the bonnet we can now remove the old Mitsuba pump.

 

...which cleaned up the engine bay visuals quite nicely.

 

Wire it up, and then cross your fingers and turn on the ignition. The Carter whirrs to life, then coughs as it gets its first mouthful of fuel and settling to a steady buzz. But uh-oh...there's a leak, at the output hose end. It's coming from where the hose adapter screws into the pump (that hex head)

 

The Carter has a sticker which says not to use any teflon tape in screwing on the barbed hose adapters, but in this case I didn't see that I had any choice, and reinstalled the hose end with some teflon tape, and the leak stopped.

 

Went for a drive and it all seems to be fine. Roll on Wednesday :D

[72240z]

They say not to use the tape because it dissolves on contact and clogs up your system. There are many other thread lockers besides Teflon. Permatex is one example of one made specifically for the job, Idk what they have on your side of the world but surely something better suited.

 

I would go back and do it correctly before there are problems. Just my .02.

 

The rest looks really good though btw.

[Gollum]

Wow, not only do you have a splendidly nice car, but you're obviously doing a good job on keeping the improvements coming quickly while keeping the car drivable. Well done.

 

72gph fuel pump?! How much power do you plan on that ol' nissan engine putting out? Even the more extreme race prepped Z cars out there winning SCCA races here in the states are only pushing a taste over 300 to the wheels in most cases (from what they tell us at least). They can get more but the reliability just falls off dramatically.

 

Regarding the alternator issue, I think the conclusion you came to in the end is correct. That melted wire on the terminal looks like a symptom, not a source of a problem.

 

Also, did you consider the possibility of sectioning those camaro based struts? If they're good units that might be a possible solution to getting some good struts in there for a decent price.

[Babalouie]

They say not to use the tape because it dissolves on contact and clogs up your system. There are many other thread lockers besides Teflon. Permatex is one example of one made specifically for the job, Idk what they have on your side of the world but surely something better suited.

 

I would go back and do it correctly before there are problems. Just my .02.

The rest looks really good though btw.

Agreed. I think the routing of the hoses would look nicer and be more compact if the hose fittings pointed straight up instead of out to the sides.

 

So I think I'll swap over the hose fittings to banjo connections, which will have a crush washer between the banjo and the pump, and that should stop any leaks that get past the threads.

 

72gph fuel pump?! How much power do you plan on that ol' nissan engine putting out? Even the more extreme race prepped Z cars out there winning SCCA races here in the states are only pushing a taste over 300 to the wheels in most cases (from what they tell us at least). They can get more but the reliability just falls off dramatically.

The cylinder head guy guesstimated about 260-280hp, but his engine analyser program simulated 320hp. I'm not sure if it's going to be *that* powerful (would be nice though...) but the old pump was probably borderline at anything over 220hp anyway so had to be replaced anyway.

 

Also, did you consider the possibility of sectioning those camaro based struts? If they're good units that might be a possible solution to getting some good struts in there for a decent price.

Another possibility are Bilsteins for the rear of a Mitsubishi Pajero which are shorter again (I think they call them Shogun or Montero in other parts of the world). I know Koni make a rear shock for the Tarago/Previa that is the right length, but they don't make it in the Sport, so would have to be revalved.

 

And eventually I'll also check out the KYB range too, so there are still alternatives to investigate before we get too radical.