National "Cash for Clunkers" Program...

[72240z]

PR should either be a state or not, pisses me off every time I see it in a list with states. To good to be with us but still want every single benefit right? Bullshit

 

sorry lol.

 

NY/NJ milkin that rebate hard :-)

Edited August 26, 2009 by 72240z

[hang_510]

^ the HI stats are impressive!

[72240z]

I surprised to see MI and IL up there too, didn't the auto industry really put a hurt on those states? Shocked to both see the money spent and continued loyalty.

[Orange620]

I wish we still had options for cars that get 38-41mpg highway... NOT electric hybrids.

 

Honda Civic NGV gets 36 highway miles per gge . CNG at Clean and Green Fuel in Seattle is $1.55 today. You can't go as far between refills(200 miles), but its still kind of an option.

 

 

http://www.cngprices.com/

[72240z]

No one wants to run cng more then me lol BUT that its still just not practical. Not in my opinion anyway. The honda comes with the home fuel maker that makes it look a lot better but compared to a regular car running gasoline getting 38-41? Na, no comparison.

 

 

Lucky to live on the west too or it's not even an option, I have three stations within like 60 miles. At least there if your willing to plan your trips around fill stations you can, not here or really anywhere else in America.

[nukeday]

What I find interesting about this whole program is that it doesn't particularly address the primary issue. That is, fossil fuel is a limited resource. The solution is not to invest billions in replacing our insulated, single family vehicles, but in resourcing viable, sustainable, community based transportation. No matter how much better mileage we get through this program, we are still being pummeled by the All American Motivator. Consume.

 

Ok, enough of my hippy soap box...

 

If you haven't seen this, it's worth the several minutes to watch.

 

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

 

This my spiritual mantra, but yeah, I own like 6 cars right now. :o They are all 'clunkers' according to this program... but my 30 year old B210 gets the same mileage as a new Versa. If I average the 4 vehicles we use (F-150, Caravan, Saab 900, B210) I get 25.5 mpg each. Take out the F-150, which is purpose driven for camping and the dump, and the average goes up to 28.6 mpg.

 

Anyway, this is one of the things I like about ratsun, and like minded boards. By repairing, improving and maintaining our older cars, we are helping to sustain a system based on measurable value, not perpetual consumption.

[Skib]

 

If you haven't seen this, it's worth the several minutes to watch.

 

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

 

good video :D

[Orange620]

No one wants to run cng more then me lol BUT that its still just not practical. Not in my opinion anyway. The honda comes with the home fuel maker that makes it look a lot better but compared to a regular car running gasoline getting 38-41? Na, no comparison.

 

 

Lucky to live on the west too or it's not even an option, I have three stations within like 60 miles. At least there if your willing to plan your trips around fill stations you can, not here or really anywhere else in America.

 

I looked at the map and couldn't find a single station with CNG in New Jersey. Definitely not an option there.

 

The other problem is that Honda yanked the rug out from under Fuelmaker, the guys who made the home CNG refueling unit. They bought a majority of stock in the company and then earlier this year, with no warning at all, called all their loans, and forced it into involuntary bankruptcy. Employess were given an hour to collect their stuff and get. Even though Honda has made/sold the NGV Civic for over a decade they treat it like a bastard step child. When gas was hitting $4 two years ago due to "world demand", Honda made zero increase in production above their tiny token output for sale in California.

 

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/04/06/455943.html

 

 

The good news is that IMPCO of Santa Ana, CA bought the remains of the company. They are a good company and make most of the Propane/CNG/alternative fuel components you can buy now. They are now making/selling commercial size refueling units. They haven't restarted manufacture of the "Phill", home refueling unit but they have partnered with a company in Italy to start manufacture of Fuelmaker products next year. Hopefully they'll also make the Phill.

 

http://www.impco.ws/fuelmaker.asp

Edited August 26, 2009 by Orange620

[angliagt]

I have a problem with this program - shouldn't it be for

American (Ford,GM,Chrysler),& foreign brands built in the USA?

Why are we helping other countries economy?

Why do we always have to "play fair",while other countries

protect their own "self interests"?

 

- Doug

[Guest 510kamikazifreak]

My take on this from watching a couple tube vids..

Is this not supposed to be a bit of help for mo nature??

 

And the economy??

 

How does letting it rip,and speawing much smoke..

And killing the real motors..

 

Help???

 

To me seems like a waste??

:blink:

[72240z]

I have a problem with this program - shouldn't it be for

American (Ford,GM,Chrysler),& foreign brands built in the USA?

Why are we helping other countries economy?

Why do we always have to "play fair",while other countries

protect their own "self interests"?

 

- Doug

 

You know ford and gm sell MANY cars in other countries and other countries so far haven't really put the screws to them to save their own even though they could and I'm sure some say should. If not for foreign car sales usa auto manufactures would be FUCKED.

 

More importantly and beyond that though it's called a free market for a reason.

[72240z]

My take on this from watching a couple tube vids..

Is this not supposed to be a bit of help for mo nature??

 

And the economy??

 

How does letting it rip,and speawing much smoke..

And killing the real motors..

 

Help???

 

To me seems like a waste??

:blink:

 

What do you mean letting it rip spewing smoke? I was under the impression they drained all fluids and seized them up. Whatever that pumps out is a drop in the bucket compared to running the motor another 50k+ miles.

 

That aside though it's a catch 22. What are they going to do say ya lets get the bad mpg engines off the road then sell them to people? lol Then there would be a whole group of people saying wtf they said get them off the street and now they are living on in other cars or the parts are keeping others running longer.

 

I'm not saying ones right or wrong just that there are 2 sides.

[72240z]

I looked at the map and couldn't find a single station with CNG in New Jersey. Definitely not an option there.

 

The other problem is that Honda yanked the rug out from under Fuelmaker, the guys who made the home CNG refueling unit. They bought a majority of stock in the company and then earlier this year, with no warning at all, called all their loans, and forced it into involuntary bankruptcy. Employess were given an hour to collect their stuff and get. Even though Honda has made/sold the NGV Civic for over a decade they treat it like a bastard step child. When gas was hitting $4 two years ago due to "world demand", Honda made zero increase in production above their tiny token output for sale in California.

 

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/04/06/455943.html

 

 

The good news is that IMPCO of Santa Ana, CA bought the remains of the company. They are a good company and make most of the Propane/CNG/alternative fuel components you can buy now. They are now making/selling commercial size refueling units. They haven't restarted manufacture of the "Phill", home refueling unit but they have partnered with a company in Italy to start manufacture of Fuelmaker products next year. Hopefully they'll also make the Phill.

 

http://www.impco.ws/fuelmaker.asp

 

Ya I read about that. I can't blame honda for not pushing further. People could give a shit about cng, even after I lay out on the table how its so superior to all the other option being offered they just ignore said facts and go back to the same bs. Oh high psi tanks oh that's dangerous lol, ugh. Oh yaaaa hybrid is just as good. Makes me want to bash my head on the table just explaining it now.

 

I'm nj/nyc so it's not that bad. There are some stations and the mta in nyc allows you to fill of their own tanks if you call ahead. Beyond that though its fail town usa. NJ has the cheapest gas in the country (arguably), you can take a ride to the industrial areas and see refineries, trains, storage tanks and tankers far as the eye can see. This will be like the LAST place to use anything but good ol gasoline.

 

What I find the biggest kick in the crotch is new jersey transit NJT, mas transit authority MTA and ALL government vehicles run cng!!! The government already has its own cng infrastructure and does absolutely nothing to expand its usage. Just sit back and watch everyone suck the tit.

 

I don't care what anyone says its not the companies, it's not us the people, its the jerk offs in Washington holding stocks and getting paid to suck arab penis for oil that has us stuck running in place soon to again be paying buku bucks per gallon

[Orange620]

One of the best things about CNG is that its a great intermediate step to H2. There's a place near me where they test and promote hydrogen fuel cells in cars. They weren't getting enough range out of the vehicles so they just upped the pressure from 3500 psi which they use for CNG to 5000 psi, which is now the H2 standard. The funny thing is that all the storage equipment they use, including the tanks in the cars, is just regular CNG equipment.

 

My thought is if H2 is ever readily available(like in L.A. now), I'll just convert a regular car with a regular engine to run on it. Engines run just fine on hydrogen, however you have to inject water or when the H20 in the exhaust reacts with nitrogen in the air and you get nitric acid. Injecting water stops the reaction. Screw the expensive/bulky fuel cell and electric motor, internal combustion still rules!

[72240z]

Well thats the thing, if the result is to stick with internal combustion I see a possible 2 goals. One being ethanol made from algae or some similar super cheap mas production method. The jumping stone being the e85 some already run. Second is H2, which is catching on in places like LA because rich stars are giving it air time. I think even Jeremy Piven rocks a h2 bimmer. The jumping stone there I guess SHOULD be the fact our government and mas transit companies are and have been using cng exclusively for some time now and as you said the switch to h2 is so minimal.

 

I honestly just don't think its going to happen for any gas or high pressure fuel. Even though entire countries in Europe have made it work. Then again they made levies work to so lol.

 

It's my opinion the gov is just throwing grants in a million directions to front to the people they are funding "alternative fuel research" but the truth is the money and hype isn't needed. Whats needed is the national infrastructure to be built so we could finally implement one of the few superior options we already have. It would mean a boost to the economy, instead of buying some prince yet another palace and it would mean more jobs in america. Say nothing for the environmental benefits.

 

I LOVE internal combustion engines and I know I'll catch shit for saying it but....

I think ideally all electric makes the most sense. There is an unlimited supply we could all use and all off a single grid. We can all recharge the grid we can all pull off it. We have plenty of room in the mid west to build solar power plants that would provide enough power for this entire continent, with current technology. There are batteries that last 5 times as long as the ones currently used with patents held by? petrochemical companies. The same people who hold down MANY technologies that would hurt or down right destroy their business.

[Bleach]

all electric! 280EV

[Orange620]

Its not the Europeans that have made CNG work, its the Pakistanis(#1) and Argentinians(#2). I think we could probably figure out how to do it.

 

 

Electricity is cheap but not when you factor in the cost of lithium ion batteries. Pound for pound, batteries have just a fraction of the usable energy you can get out of a 5000 psi(or 10000psi) vessel of H2 or CNG.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Orange620

[72240z]

I was referring to h2 with the European comment. There are north eastern countries doing a hell of a lot with it. As far as cng though is India up there too? They sure do seem to sell a lot of hardware for it.

 

Thats why I made the point out battery technology being locked up. Even super efficient models like the tesla make what 200miles on a charge? It's just not practical.

 

As far as goals though and what to dump money into in order to achieve them I see none better then electric.

[nismo dr]

[nismo dr]

[nismo dr]

 

Edited August 29, 2009 by nismo dr

[nismo dr]

I did save the plate if someone named Daz has a 510 and want some garage art

[Rubberman]

I work for a big car dealer here and man I'd like to have a few of the nissan trucks that have been traded in. 90 models and a few 98 99 frontiers. He's going to let me get some stuff off them when the Gov. gives them their money for them. I found a damn nice set of bucket seats for my 620 project. There's a nice chrome grill guard on a 4x4 95 I'm gonna get, what for, I don't know, just hate to see stuff like that get crushed for the hell of it.