HRH Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 MORE PICTURES!!!!! :D So I was trying to get the control arm off the old way, which was compress the trailing arm, then weasel the bolts out, when I realized I was making it way too hard. The last time, the reason I did that was the exhaust was through the cross member, which negated dropping it unless I wanted to unbolt the entire exhaust. So I ran a side pipe, which may eventually be run out the back, but might go through the car since not having it in the crossmember makes it really easy to drop. 4 bolts and then no spring tension and really easy to get the control arms off. Look, clears the mount! Pretty soon I'll throw on the brackets I got from....someone on here, and I can't even remember who, but they're very nice, and also painted Hemi engine enamel orange. Drums suck! The funny thing was I half-assed this all day, but really I probably spent about 45 minutes of actual work getting it all out. I felt kinda lazy today. :D Quote Link to comment
bonvo Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Pretty soon I'll throw on the brackets I got from....someone on here, and I can't even remember who, but they're very nice, and also painted Hemi engine enamel orange. Drums suck! my money is on....compression lol looks good man glad its comming together....or should i say apart :D Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Matt where'd you get the circle track springs and what type are you using? Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Day Motorsports catalog, or Coleman Racing, can't remember which. Just standard 500 lb/inch (replicating rally spring rate) flat wound on both sides. You have to cut off the flat wound side on one end to fit the trailing arm. They ended up being identical height though, think they were 12" springs? Sport Compact Car has a similar write up on their rally 510 back in the day, which is where I got the idea. But they used Eibachs, which are too damn expensive per spring if you ask me, though that's what I'm using in the front because that's what comes with the Ground Control kit. The circle track springs should be decent quality, but due to circle track and the high rate of replacement, they're cheap! Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) Hmm... Thanks for the info Matt, I'll start a little research here. I'm supposing you used the 3" coilover springs at 500lbs for the rears? Edited April 23, 2009 by Jason Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Yep, 3" inside diameter springs. Lots of lengths and rates as long as you don't mind a little custom cutting. Coilovers in the rear would be nice too, but in the mind of budgeting and still working just fine... Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Hi Matt, you know, the Chevy "G Body" front springs look like they might work too, they're a 4.08" OD and have something like a 750lb rate available for the rear. Effectively that would give you a 200lb wheel rate at the rear without trimming yet... Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 750 is way too stiff for rally though. And I think the circle track springs come in that high a rating too. I have some catalogs around here, but don't want to go look at the moment. I'm going to sleep. :) Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Well, 200lb wheel rate is what I run on my "soft" 'goon for the street, the other 'goon is at 300lbs. You can get those in 500lb rates too from stock "G" bodies, the 750lb rate is from the "Z28". They seem to be pretty cheap too, Napaonline list them at like $95 a pair! Night now! Edited April 24, 2009 by Jason Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted April 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Wait a minute, wagons come with leaf springs, did you change yours to coil? I think stock 510 rear springs are in the 280 lb/inch range. Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Well, the soft 'goon has an extra leaf to match the 200lb Specialty front springs. The hard 'goon has custom leaf springs matched to the 300lb coil overs. The soft goon can carry 3 short blocks without any suspension sag, ask Datzenmike ;)! Right now, I'm working on something for a sedan which is why I'm looking over spring choices. I'd like 200lb wheel rates or so without dropping the car much ... Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted April 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) Yeah, but you can't measure the same pound rating with the leaf springs due to the design of the rear trailing arm being a 2-1 ratio whereas the leaf springs are a 1-1 ratio. Stock sedan rear springs being about 280 spring rate are darn stiff, but have twice the lever arm acting on them. Basically stock coil springs in the trailing arm would compare as 140 pound leaf springs, if I'm calculating that correctly. Of course, 300 lb coilovers in the front is certainly stiffer than a Mack truck, but it's also a 1-1 ratio, unlike the rear unless we're talking solid-axle leaf spring design. Dig? :D EDIT: I found the old SCC article that talks about this. It's actually greater than 2:1 motion ratio. The article is here: http://www.modified.com/projectcars/0105scc_datsun_510_rally_beater_part_2/index.html Edited April 25, 2009 by HRH Quote Link to comment
Duke Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 The acutal spring ratio for the rear trailing arms is 3.8:1. I'm pretty sure Jason is talking about wheel rates with all of his posts, regardless of wagon or sedan. Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Morning Matt, Duke, yes the motion at the rear swing arm for the sedan has to be accounted for. I've been using a 3.7:1 conversion to get the actual wheel rate for the sedan rear spring rate at the wheels. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted April 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Oh! I stand corrected then! :) I should have guessed a fellow ratsuner would have done his homework. Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 No worries Matt, better to get help just in case I'm wrong eh? You are right though, for a street car/daily driver, about the 200lb spring rate is about all I can tolerate. The ride gets pretty rough after that! The "Mulholland" spec 120lb wheel rate is pretty decent though, that's what's going to end up in my stocker 4 door. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted April 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Alright, here's the latest on the rear disc conversion. I talked to Aaron yesterday (compression) and found out I'm one of a handful that have a problem with the brackets over his years of making them. :D As of yet, we haven't found a rhyme or reason, but fortunately it's an easy fix. Here's the problem, which on most 510s isn't a problem. I'm leaning more towards differences in the rotors and or caliper brackets, but in any case, it was waaaay to close to the front side of the rotor, as seen here: So after figuring that out, I got some regular 10mm washers, not even shimming washers, that spaced the bracket out from the rotor just perfectly. And here is the end result, shown without e-brake hookups. Yes, the calipers are the same, but slightly different style as one of the rebuilts didn't have the inspection hole cast in it. Normally it would bother me, but I realize it's pretty trivial. It'll brake just fine regardless. And what would new control arms and springs be without new spring bumpers?! So that's it, going to go for install in a little bit. Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Nice Matt! Ima gonna send you my parts next you know and you could send them back all pretty and assembled :D! Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Anybody ever have this happen before? :eek: It was almost a VERY bad thing. Fortunately I was able to run a tap through and collect the filings with needlenose and a small magnet tool. Happy with not having damaged the diff. Does anyone have torque specs for the side flanges? I show 61 ft-lbs (unless I again misread a torque spec), which seemed excessive but the bolt was a 10 mil, should have been good for that, or so I thought. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) And from another popular site: http://legacycentral.org/library/literature/differential.htm Now remove the Nissan stubs from the stock 510 differential (using the impact wrench or breaker bar / vise grip and a regular deep socket), and bolt them in place of the Subaru ones you removed, using the 510 stub axle bolts. DO NOT use an impact wrench to tighten these, as they will strip. Just tighten them "snug" using a breaker bar or ratchet. You do not even need to use loc-tite on the stub axle bolts. Everything else (driveshaft, half-shafts, etc.) just bolts right up. Yep, sure as shit, they WILL strip! So I'm going to go out and screw with it again, keep pulling the bolt out, and checking for thread stretch, now I'm paranoid. Had to pull another diff flange bolt of the spare R160 I had. I think the reason for this is they don't go thread in quite as far as the original subi axle stubs, but I could be wrong. I'm half tempted to put a longer bolt in there to get a bit more purchase on the threads, but think I'll just button her up and stop worrying. Edited April 30, 2009 by HRH Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Well, fixed one problem, on to the next: Anybody ever run into this? Bushings from NAPA, say made in Japan right on them. Bolts are .015 too large to fit. Option 1. Ream out center of bushing with sandpaper or other abrasive. Option 2. Take bolts to Datsun guru and have him lathe them down by .015. Don't really like the idea of making them sloppier in the holes, but not sure how well reaming out the center is going to work. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 My Datsun guru/machinist has an adjustable ream, so it's all good now! Bringing him a bolt and control arms today. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 HRH Yes its only snug when putting those stub axle bolts in. Jeff and I have done a r160 to R180 snap in to stub conversion. You use the threaded plate from the r160 and pound/vise grip it on the r180 side spider gear then install it all back together. However you must cut the dust shield on the R160 stub axle as the r160 bolt is barely long enough.To fit in the wider diff of the r180 You either have to get a longer bolt from a R200 4 bolt flange diff or use the a whole R200 4 bolt flange and its bolt that goes with it. We did the r180 covesion on Jeff 510 as he got a free R180 snap in diff with a 3.90 GR from a 200sx S12 I think. otherwise all R200 Or most have crappy gear ratios. The R160 Datsun 4bolt flange will fit into a Subi R160(early clutch pack) and just bolt it up snug. No cuting of the dust sheild. I ike the rear disc brake write up PS buy that wagon for sale in spokane Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Hmm, I'll have to call a buddy of mine, looks like his. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Turns out it was a buddy of mine. Tempted, but decided against at the moment. The last thing I need is another car. More pics to come. Quote Link to comment
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