coil wireing?

[fisch]

I am finally getting ready to put in that EI black box dizzy distributor and corresponding coil in my 521. But I am a bit confused on the coil end of things.

 

NOTE- I will be using the proper EI coil so I can get rid of the ballast resistor.

 

I have studied everything I could find, spent alot of time w/ hainz's simple diagram, been back and fourth over the stock wireing diagram.

 

But the simplicity of the EI conversion diagram makes my stock coil look like spaghetti! I am not sure what to do w/ all the wires.

 

Here is the photo of my stock coil. Questions underneath the photo.

 

 

Questions:

 

Basically, which wires go to the connectors on the dizzy?

 

What do i do about the relay (under plastic bag in upper left)?

 

How do I bypass the ballast resistor?

 

Do I need the little wire that goes from coil + and ends in that little thing attached to the fender?

 

Do i need to ground the new dist? (There is a tab between the vacuum advance and the dist cap.)

 

What confuses me the most is that the + wires (black w/ red) never seem to go to the stock dual points dist. It goes into the ballast and then on the other side of the ballast, goes back into the harness via a black w/white wire.

 

This is probably simpler than I am imagining, but i am confused:confused:

[fisch]

In other words. How do I get that tangled mess above to look like this nice clean drawing?

 

 

For instance how do i run a positive to the new dizzy when both my current black and red + terminal lines go back into the harness? From what I can make out one goes to the fusebox(after ballast), and the other to the key. This leaves nothing to go to the distributor.

 

How about this?

 

Do I run 3 wires off the + coil terminal? One to fusebox (jumping/bypassing over ballast), one to keyed ignition , and a third one to the Distributor?

 

Is the above a solution? Hainz's diagram above only shows 2 wires on the positive line.

 

really appreciate any insight y'all!

[fisch]

I know a ton of you have done this conversion, does anyone have a photo of what their coil wiring is doing for a black box dizzy distributor?

 

Do y'all have that relay? Mine shows that it goes back to the throttle for some reason I can't fathom. Do I even need it?

[motavated]

I asked this question a while back but got scared and didn't take off the ballast.... http://forum.ratsun.net/showthread.php?t=3397

But I think PCD might know.... But I think he's at the meet...

 

And you know what thats a good reference pic when connecting one back up again!!!!

[ppeters914]

How do I bypass the ballast resistor?

Just jumper across it, or replace the two wires with one long.

 

Do I need the little wire that goes from coil + and ends in that little thing attached to the fender?

That little thing is a condenser. When they're attached to the coil, it's usually to reduce static in the radio. I'd leave it out for now.

 

Do i need to ground the new dist? (There is a tab between the vacuum advance and the dist cap.)

Yes.

 

Sometimes it's easier to just rewire/run new wires the way they're supposed to go instead of figuring out the PO's electrical hacks. That's kinda/sorta what I've been doing on my 411 using a donor 510 hardness so I can match the color codes, but that's just to get it back on the road.

 

On my roadster, I plan to just rip the whole nasty mess out and go with a new EZ Wiring harness. Won't be stock, won't match the stock color code, but it'll be new wire with new connectors and a modern ATC-style fuse box. Everyone I know who's gone that route has never reported any electrical issues.

[banzai510(hainz)]

I cant believe the 521 has that many wires to it.

 

OK if your going to put the that EI dizzy in and NOT change the POINT coil you should keep the ballast in there. ONly when You get a say a 79 200sx coil/MSD Blaster 2 you REMOVE the ballast.

 

Removing the Ballast on a point coil will COOK it!!!!!!!!!

 

Now you got to tell US what you realy want.??? or going to use.

 

The drawing of the MSD and EI coil in the avove link you only realaly need the blk/wht wire from the fuse box(IGN ON) then the 2 wires from the Dizzy. One will be spliecd together usually at the + side of coil then the other will be Minus side of coil.

 

if in dought dont do nothing till you fill comfortable with it.

 

 

the blk/red is the point wires. youll disconnect this and just tape it up(hide it,dont cut nothing)

the blue wire with the capaictor you will not need.

 

the relay wires I dont have them and cant remember right now but if hooked up to the Blk/wht wire you cant keep them on there. But most time I think there just the 3rd gear switch and NOt need them.

 

Blk/yellow is 2nd set of points wires and wont need this (3rd gear switch)

 

Im going by memorery other wise OLDDAT.COM

[fisch]

Thank you HAinz! I will have to read your post a few times more to check everything off, but you have made me hopeful.

 

Also, (as i mentioned in post #1:)), I do have the proper coil. It says "For use w/ Electronic Ignition" #FT-034 12V.

 

HAinz, you are da man!

[banzai510(hainz)]

No Im not the man

 

More of less to get this working all you will need is the MSD Coil and the dizzy. and the BLK/WHt wire from the truck.

 

B) wire just make the connection at the + side of coil. Or find a double jumper conntor from the parts store.

C) is just the - side of coil.

 

 

But remeber to set your motor to TDC or know where your motor position is cause a L16 dizzy ROTOR wiil be in a different than a L 20 Dizzy. Hopefully you have the correct pedastal and timming plate with it as one unit. L16 timming plate and pedastal will not work with the L20 units.

 

on another note maybe disconnet the tach untill you get it running.Or if it dont start disconnect it.

[banzai510(hainz)]

you could run the Match box with the stock coil and Ballst if you hook it up like a Pertronix set up. So its more like a eleltronic trigger than a full EI Higher output set up.

 

B) would hook up to the BLK/WHT wire (use a jumper there)

C) -side of coil as in above drawing

[fisch]

No Im not the man

 

More of less to get this working all you will need is the MSD Coil and the dizzy. and the BLK/WHt wire from the truck.

 

 

HAinz you're confusing me. Are you saying the coil I bought won't work? Again it says "For use w/ Electronic Ignition" #FT-034 12V and I am pretty sure is meant for the Dizzy black box distributor.

 

I thought it was pretty much the same as the MSD?

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

I guess that should work. I dont know that part #, Im assumeing your know from what vehicle it came from. If thats a EI type then Yes it should be fine.

[motavated]

I had that coil too and well after a while I just got confused.... I'm just happy that its running you know.... :lol:

[zerow]

 

... ONly when You get a say a 79 200sx coil...

 

Hainz,

Isn't it possible to use ANY electronic ignition coil (200SX, HL510, 280ZX, Truck with L20B AND blackbox distributor, etc)? As long as the vehicle it comes off of came with matchbox distributor? I could be entirely wrong, but I had thought that as long as it reads "For Electronic Ignition Only", and it's from a later Datsun, that it would work.

 

BTW, thank you for your diagrams, it makes the install process much easier.

[fisch]

Allrighty guys. THIS INFO IS NOT VERIFIED!

 

To try to clear the fog from my head I made some diagrams. Will this work?

 

First I scanned the stock wiring diagram for the whole truck. I then edited it down so we could just see the stock ignition wiring.

 

Second I ghosted out the first drawing and overlayed the wireing changes as I understand them so far. These changes are ONLY what happens from the fusebox to the sparkplugs. Anything before the fuse box I have no idea about, or if we even have to mess with it.

 

Feel free to download the drawings and make corrections. I've never done this kinda stuff before.

 

It is hard to imagine it could be this simple. So don't trust this yet.

 

1st drawing- Stock diagram for dual points 521:

 

 

 

QUESTION: In the following drawing. Do we not need the BR wire from the key to the old resistor? How would it hook up if we do?

 

 

 

2nd drawing- EI Conversion Drawing:

[fisch]

About that BR wire from the Key to the Ballast Resistor. Am I to understand that that was for giving the stock system a full 12v on start up (full key turn). But only on first start up afterward it would go back to what the ballast put out?

 

And since, w/ the conversion to EI, we will always have 12V, it is no longer necessary? Is that why we can edit it out?

[mklotz70]

Wow! ......let's see if I can sort this out a bit for you!! I'm going to duplicate a bit of the above info to help with clarity.

 

Some background info so that you better understand the "why". The point coil is designed to work with 6v...not 12v...so the resistor is put in line from the ign sw "run" position to drop the voltage while it's running. The "start" wire from the ign sw bypasses the resistor to provide a full 12v to the coil while cranking, since the starter is pulling such big load. The EI dizzy's have the resistance built in, so they can receive a full 12v connection from the "run" position of the ign sw, which is why the resistor gets bypassed.

 

Since you have the EI dizzy...you can eliminate the resistor...because the EI coil has the resistance built in. If you leave the resistor in, the coil will only see 6v and the windings inside will see even less(probably about 3-4v) and you won't get a strong spark. One side of the resistor is wired to the coil(short black/red), the other(black/white), to the ign sw (via the fuse box in your diagram). Remove the resistor and short(black/red) wire to the coil. Cut it out or simply tape it back to the long black/red wire. Take the wire from the ign sw(black/white) and connect it directly to the + on the coil. You can disconnect the capacitor from the coil. I'd leave it off unless you have bad radio noise, then worry about it. The black/red wire already connected to the + term on the coil is the "start" wire, which is only giving 12v during cranking. Both wires need to be on the + term or you will not get 12v during both events.....start/run. On the ign sw, these are two separate positions, but the IGN(black/white) also gets 12v during cranking. The 12v from the "start" position also goes to the starter solenoid to crank the eng. The resistor...in or out...doesn't change the events, simply the volts to the coil in the "run" mode. So....there's the "why"

 

In addition to the two wires you already have on the + term of the coil, you will need to run a new wire to the "B" on the matchbox. This is it's operating volts and needs to be a full 12v. If the resistor is left in the circuit, you will only be getting 6v in the "run" mode. Won't work. Since the new wire is attached to both "run" and "start" wires at the coil, it will get 12v in both positions.

 

Your original dizzy had dual points, so two wires. You want the primary point's wire...should be the black/yellow...not the blue/white. The primary wire goes directly from the dizzy to the coil, the secondary goes through the relay and is only connected when certain conditions are met....none of which happen when trying to start and run. I'd simply run a new wire from the - of the coil to the "C" on the matchbox.

 

There's is also a ground issue to be addressed. All of the EI dizzys I've seen have a spade terminal mounted at the screw that holds the vac adv in. This is for a dedicated ground wire. The EI dizzy uses a lot more amps than the points and needs a good ground. I never trust the ground it gets through the body of the dizzy to the engine block....since it's coming through a greasy, oily, mating surface. Run a separate ground wire along with the other two....connect the other end to the bolt that holds the coil mount to the fender. You can tape all 3 wires together to keep it clean.

 

So...these are the only 4 wires connected to your coil...

+ from ign sw "start" position (black/red)

+ from ign sw "run" position (black/white)

+ to the "B"(battery) on the matchbox

- to the "C"(coil) on the matchbox(new or black/yellow)

 

last wire will be the ground from the dizzy body to the coil mount or similar "good" ground.

 

As for the relay...it can be abandoned in place or removed...your call. Since you will no longer have a set of points connected to it....or it connected to the coil, it won't matter one bit whether it turns on during 3rd gear deccelleration or not :)

 

Your call on whether to cut the blue/white off the coil connection or tape it back along the other wire. You can remove the blue/yellow wire as well. The white/red to the relay can get taped back. I wouldn't cut or remove anything until you have the EI setup working :) After it's working....if you want it to look as stock as possible, use the black/yellow wire and run the new + and - wires along with it. You could actually use the blue/yellow wire as the new + wire. Then connect the ground from the dizzy to the head(not my preference).

 

While you're in there messing with the wiring.....I'd disconnect the batt cable from the block and clean it well. There should be another smaller wire from the batt neg to the side wall near the volt reg....pull it, clean and reattach.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Fisch

Thats a great drawing but really no different that the org one I posted.

But this one you made it EZer to understand.

should make the IGN wire Blk/wht to make it MORE idiot proof but thats good.

 

 

ZEROW,

yes you can use the Coil from the car the matchbox was pulled from(or the ones you listed above). I only use that as a example if somebody needs to order one as a general part # to go by if someone just had the Dizzy and not the coil.

or buy a MSD Blaster 2 if you got to have a go faster PIMP looking one.

[mklotz70]

oh...thanks for the great pic you put up at the beginning...I forgot about it, posted all the info, then when back and edited to match your wire colors...which don't match the schematic I have. That pic made it sooooooo much easier to help!!!

[zerow]

 

ZEROW,

yes you can use the Coil from the car the matchbox was pulled from(or the ones you listed above). I only use that as a example if somebody needs to order one as a general part # to go by if someone just had the Dizzy and not the coil.

or buy a MSD Blaster 2 if you got to have a go faster PIMP looking one.

 

Thanks for the clarification, Hainz. The example you used is a little rare down here in SoCal J/Ys. To be able to tell the average guy that using only one coil from one model will have some of them pulling their hair out looking for that one car. No need for the PIMP looking coil, as long as it says NISSAN and FOR ELECTRONIC IGNITION ONLY, thats pimp enough for me. :D

[banzai510(hainz)]

ZEROW,

No need for the PIMP looking coil, as long as it says NISSAN and FOR ELECTRONIC IGNITION ONLY, thats pimp enough for me.

 

 

You know what?

I bet the stock JAP coil is better than the MSD Blaster 2.

 

 

Fisch,

I seen the photo of your wiring . First off I thought my colors were also differnt. Usually Nissan kept them fairly straight fwd thru the years and models. But some of the colors I think are differnt on mine. I have to ck. But long as you got it recoreded down you can alwasy go back to points if the match box fails.( I keep a spare coil set up under my seat) I use it more often for trouble shooting other peopls cars and using it myself as the SPARE!!!!!

[fisch]

Awesome y'all!

 

So Mike the change I need to make to my (2nd) drawing is I need to put back in that BR wire from the Key switch (full on/turn) position. BUT now run it directly to the + of the EI coil. Right?

 

Otherwise it wont get 12V on full key-turn start up.

 

So the + terminal on the EI coil will have three wires on it. Start (BR), Run (BW), and the line to 'B' on the dizzy (whatever color I choose).

[mklotz70]

that sounds about right. I only took a quick look just now at your diagrams....I did the previous post based on the colors you have in your first pic...which do not match the wiring diagrams. I have...no clue why, but this should work for your rig.

[fisch]

that sounds about right. I only took a quick look just now at your diagrams....I did the previous post based on the colors you have in your first pic...which do not match the wiring diagrams. I have...no clue why, but this should work for your rig.

 

The Colors your eyes see in the diagram are not actually right, I just colored them to make them easier to follow and thought making them dual colored would be a pain to do. Though if I really want to make it idiot proof I should!

 

However the color code letters and corresponding color key are correct. And right from the manual. Heh it actually surprised me when they matched my photo. The only difference is that mine has the black-red 'KEY' wire join at the positive coil terminal and in the schematic it is at the ballast.

 

Heh I edited the diagram that was in the 521 manual from the620.com, which even says "Thanks to MKlotz70 on the cover! So thank you MIKE!!!:D:D

[fisch]

OK, in an attempt to make this as idiot proof as possible (me being in need of as much simplicity as possible!) I made the conversion diagram color correct to the factory wiring diagram from the 521 manual on the620.com

 

Hainz, other than exposing the fusebox and key, the only major change from your drawing is the addition of that black and red wire from the ign sw "start" position to the + of the coil.

 

How we looking guys?

 

I guess the real test will be when I try to install it!

 

[mklotz70]

there's been a bit of confusion over the 521 diagrams. Your colors were a bit different than the 521 diagram I was using. I haven't bothered to dig too deep into it. When you're working with such a limited number of wires, it's pretty easy to figure out which is which. When I was wiring a buddy's helicopter with a Subaru motor in it, it was critical. Well, over 50 wires to chase and each had 3 colors coding it. Fun is an "F" word, but not the one I was thinking of!! :)